AIBU to think that this is not what Labour promised ?

[Rosscameasdoody]

There is an article in the online news service regarding the consultation on proposed changes to disability benefits - link is below. The consultation is being called a sham because the main proposal likely to pay for 85% of the projected savings - namely the cut to PIP requiring 4 points minimum in any one daily living category - is not up for discussion in the consultation document. In addition half of the proposals for other benefits likely to affect the disabled aren’t up for discussion either.

There are various organisations including Disability Rights UK and Amnesty International lobbying the government to comply with the law on consultation. The Tory proposals were thrown out as illegal and Labour severely criticised them for the way in which the consultation was designed. Now it seems Labour are following suit and not presenting an honest consultation - so much for working with disabled people and giving them a voice.

I would urge anyone on any sickness or disability benefits to look at the link below and then contact Disability Rights UK or any other disability organisation or charity they belong to, to ask what they are doing about this. Labour promised a full root and branch reform to PIP, to make it fairer and more transparent. They promised to consult fully and that changes would be based on full consultation with disabled people and taking their opinion into account. Am I being unreasonable to think that this is not that ?

https://apple.news/AOwMH_xQ4Rt-60MVbDqK9LQ

Subjective evidence based on a lack of research of the socio-economic drivers of ill health and disability.
Or in your words, a "proper article" which says what you want it to.

Do you think the government has put anything into place to mitigate the effect of the cuts on disabled people and their carers? Or to try to eliminate the root causes of ill health? Or have they just cracked down on the nearest handy target, having had a successful trial run with the WFA?

If a government is serious about tackling an increasing benefits bill, it's pretty stupid to (a) fail to even tackle the reasons behind the rise, (b) examine what knock-on costs the cuts will have and (c) remove the ability of working disabled people to actually, you know, work. And it's downright immoral to pretend that disability can be cured through work.

I missed this!

How is the benefits (not "welfare") bill bankrupting our local councils, in your view?

@TheFastTraybake ’its immoral to think that disability can be cured through work’ - that’s not what they’re suggesting though. The issue is people ending up on enhanced health benefits and then being fearful to find work, as they may lose what they are currently entitled to. People get trapped in that situation.

That was part of the governments analysis, which is how they make these decisions.

Councils are struggling with the rising cost of social care, which they are obliged to fund. This includes the elderly, but also the sharp increase in provision of educational facilities / placements for children with SEN. 20 councils are currently at risk of insolvency as a result of the latter.

I don’t think it’s helpful to be so hostile towards any scrutiny or challenge whatsoever.

I mean... You're doing a good job of keeping the government line. But I already know the reasons they're giving for cutting disability support. Like many, I don't believe those are the real reasons, especially given that there are estimates that maybe 1% of people will be helped into work through the cuts, and many will lose very significant sums of money without ever being able to work/work more/stop being unpaid carers.

So how is the benefits bill bankrupting councils?

100% this

For any disabled person voting Tory would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. Their intentions were clear. Labour not so much - how are those people supposed to know that a party so vocal and critical of Tory cuts to disability benefits in opposition would do worse in government ?

The cuts to benefits, especially that of PIP will end up bankrupting councils. As claimants lose entitlement to PIP, there will inevitably be their unpaid carers who will lose entitlement to carers allowance and have to increase their working hours, meaning they can no longer be care givers. So all that happens is that the duty of care passes to the local authority along with the cost.

Government won’t care because unless people have personal experience of being disabled, or have caring duties, they won’t be aware of the knock on effects. All they will see is the benefit bill being reduced, while being blissfully unaware that as a result the care budgets of councils all over the country will be blown. Arbitrary cuts are not the answer. The proper root and branch reform we were promised is. But once again we have a government which promises one thing in opposition and something else entirely in government.

I'm just astonished Labour haven't (yet) considered the fact that many many more people will become homeless as a result of these cuts. I mean, where will people actually go? Councils are running out of temporary accommodation space as it is. I'm praying the government wake up at some point

The country is going to look very different if these cuts go ahead

Disability benefits were in need of reform but I think the approach has been too much too quickly with too little consultation.

More concerning from my pov is the absence of clear socialist policies for investing in infrastructure and communities.

However they are still better than the previous shower ....

I thought the Tories had become pretty lefty and liberal actually. This is why I voted for them over Labour who I just didn't trust.

I also liked Sunak and felt tired of 'Tories are evil, Labour are virtuous' I was seeing from friends Facebook feeds. Where on earth did they think Labour was going to get money from?

People were wedded to Labour pre GE. Any discussion of policies not stacking up and leading to this was attacked. So really there’s not much to say, here we are with Labour cuts.

To the left of Genghis Khan maybe. Just.

There has been no consultation. The plans weren’t made public until two days before the spring statement. Nobody asked disabled people what they thought. And there will be no consultation about the cuts to PIP eligibility - that’s been made clear. It’s a done deal, as is fully 50% of the other changes which are also not included in the consultation document. So much for the promise of working with disabled people and taking their views into account.

@Rosscameasdoody watching Steptoe and Son on Thats TV Albert........"im not paying income tax under a socialist Government" How times change

What i mean is Labour certainly cant be called socialist any more

What i mean is Labour certainly cant be called socialist any more - I agree, but neither could the Blair government. All parties are pandering to the populist movement.

But at least the Blair government (for all its glaring foreign policy and education faults) did espouse initiatives like Sure Start which aimed to lift people out of poverty and offer chances to the disadvantaged.

I am however pleased with Starmer's cool head in the face of the Trump debacle. The thought of Johnson in this scenario is terrifying.

Exactly this if I lose pip I lose lcwra which means I can't pay bills as my income will not cover all my bills and the extra costs of being disabled which means I will lose my home and my job. Taking away a person's whole income without giving them any options is inhumane. Taking away benefits won't suddenly mean people aren't disabled anymore and there not suddenly going to be capable of working 50hr weeks.

The costs have grown too high for the state to bear in the last 10 years so whoever won power it was likely to be an area to tackle given those who are in the top 10% (£3900 net of tax a month before £2k rent, travel, childcare costs ) h ave the highest tax burden in 70 years so they cannot wrench any more money from them so they have to move to other areas. We also have a lot more people in the UK, not all of whom are fit and of working age so that also has led to extra burdens on tax payers too. It is a very difficult situation.

Anyway when did Labour care about doing measures that might not raise money? They seem to specialise in that eg adding £10k tax (it school fees VAT) to eg young female doctors who chose a good day private school for 2 children. Labour is hurting all kinds of groups left right and centre and hopefully will reap what it has sown at the next general election.

There are other means of raising revenue than income tax. Equalising tax on earned and unearned income for instance.

How have you formed your opinion that the costs are too great for the state to bear? It would be interesting to see the evidence you've based that on.

I think this is it to an extent. Childcare has gone up hugely, ours is £2,200 per child per month. This is £450 more per child per month than when we looked at the nursery 2.5 years ago. Mortgages have gone up, travel cards have gone up. Those in the top 10% are feeling really squeezed also. There isn’t the ability or the will to pay more is the impression I get from speaking with friends and from comments online

Disability benefits are a human right - enshrined in law to that effect.