Have people forgotten how to say NO

[Hayley1256]

I've read a lot of threads recently where people are asking AIBU for things that just require a simple No!

Recent ones include a neighbour telling the OP she was having some parties and that the OP can't use her own garden - OP seemed to go along with this!

Another one about a 'friend' who stays at OP's house and doesn't lift a finger, pay towards anything and expects childcare!

There are many more, but AIBU to think people have become too afraid of upsetting people that they just go along with batshit crazy/ rude behaviour and requests? Not all confrontation is bad!

But in the first example she laughed first, then basically said ‘are you for real?!’ Sometimes you don’t say no because you’re incredulous they asked in the first place, even though your head is screaming wtf? No way!!

What rubbish.

I agree with @pinkdelight , we are just more exposed to people outside of our own bubble with SM and that would include women who have been conditioned to raise boys as little princes and think physical abusive relationships are normal etc.

I see it regularly because I grew up around these norms, moved away, became exposed to boundaries, feminism - then I moved back 🙄. It was like going back in time.

Some of these posts are very real.

I wonder how quiet this place would be if in people's normal lives they practiced saying no

I don’t think everyone is comfortable saying no. The garden woman said she didn’t like confrontation. I’ve certainly got more able to say no more as I’ve got older.
Some people are people pleasers.

Not rubbish at all.
I'm willing to bet that a majority of women have been conditioned to not rock the boat.

SIL won't say no to anyone but will then complain about the person who she couldn't say no to a lot. Or doesn't say anything about poor service/shoddy goods but will act very put out in private (and actually shames people she's with who do speak up - ask me how I know 🙄) . Is very invested in being seen as a 'nice' person. When she really wants to assert herself resorts to being passive aggressive and manipulative. Stems from childhood I guess but it's very wearing. So I guess these posters have that personality. I cannot be bothered with it in real life but am quite fascinated on here reading about the knots they tie themselves up in to avoid offending an offensive person. Especially when a simple "No, I don't want to" would set them free!

going off topic a bit but there is also what I think is an increase in people feeling judged over everything 'I can't be seen in public doing some boring mundane thing because people will judge me' yes maybe it seems to be growing as forums are more concentrated but why does it matter what people think so much and to me it would show if people feels judged they must be judging others the same

I see that alot on here, people not liking confrontation. I think they need to realise that most people don't like confrontation.

Having been abused as a child - I grew up to be a people pleaser.

It was learnt behaviour to try and minimise damage to myself and also because my self esteem from having my body and mind violated regularly meant that I never understood that I had rights to say no .

therapy and maturity has liberated me - to understand and to learn how to say ‘no’ to understand that it’s not just their feelings that matter - that I matter too - that I am allowed and entitled to put myself first and not just go along with what everyone wants / expects me to do has been so liberating.

standing up for yourself is not always easy for lots of reasons - but having boundaries and learning that you matter and can politely assert your rights and needs - is an essential life skill.

I find it really sad how many women can’t do this and allow themselves to be walked all over.

I know it isn’t easy to become more assertive but it is absolutely essential for your own well being to learn to say no.

i don’t always find it easy but my life is so much better for having developed this skill. People initially do push back and are shocked when the person they are used to walking all over starts to say ‘no’ but it is totally life changing for me to realise - my thoughts and feelings do matter and I have the right and the responsibility to myself to set my boundaries and terms and to not allow others to violate me any more.

Women in the UK are taught to be weak, subservient wet lettuces. There is a thread on here atm where a woman asked if she was being unreasonable for asking her ex-husband to look after their children - his own children, while she was in hospital having a baby. The comments on the thread picked at her over where she moved to, why she moved 2 hours away, etc, every justification for why she was bad and wrong to even ask her deadbeat ex-husband to have his own children when she was in hospital! And despite the actual voting saying she was not being unreasonable, she is so subservient to the man and browbeaten by other comments, she had backtracked and apologised to the deadbeat ex which made me livid reading! It's fucking unbelievable! That a mother is made to feel bad for asking the father of her children to step up and mind his own children.

@Alicejuniper

Well you won't here about the times someone says no because they won't be posting about it, will they?
I like to help out when I can and when people don't take the piss. I'm not brave enough to just say no but will make up an excuse as to why I can't do something. Not ideal but it works for me.

Tell me why im.wrong instead of you rudeness

Or don't you know how to debate something?

I saw the neighbour and garden thread. My first thought, this was a repeat thread. My second thought- this woman can not be real.

However, some people can be such people pleasers (that I don't know, how they cope in the real world) that the idea of saying no and putting boundaries in place, is very foreign to them.

On the other hand some people are such CF'S that the idea of being told no and dealing with boundaries is such a foreign idea to them. 🙄

And yet you too can say ‘no’ in any circumstances, as it really is that simple. You’re simply choosing not to, or backtracking from your original refusal because you can’t tolerate discomfort.

Quite. But we also refuse to be treated like doormats. It's perfectly OK to say no. Especially when cheeky fuckers ask you not to use your own garden because they want to have a party in theirs. Many people will respect you more when they realise you have some boundaries. They ones who won't can go somewhere else and deal with it.

Rule 1 of Mumsnet; NO, is a complete sentence.

No. You don't have to go into work later because this woman is being a pain in the arse. Why should you have to change your routine when someone else is clearly in the wrong?
You have looked after her three sons and her dog and she suddenly decides not to talk to you?
Go in at the normal time. When she turns away from you when you say hello, just say to her how rude you are after I have put myself out looking after your children and your dog
And make sure you tell all your colleagues what you have done for her in the past and how she has suddenly decided to cold shoulder you.

There does seem to be a glut of these threads at the moment. I have wondered if some of them are real! Even the most timid women I know have got more spine than to let a neighbour dictate garden use, for example.

The ones who ask and then refute all suggestions of help are called 'askholes', I believe 😆

It is interesting that before saying the you wouldn't accept CF behaviour you needed to point out that you're a nice person. On a sub-conscious level are you assuming that some of us would believe that most people not accepting CF behaviour are in fact not nice?

@KebabCancelled , can totally relate. Abusive childhood, family scapegoat, not allowed any boundaries, any property of my own. I used to have feelings of terror dealing with other people.Inside I would be praying the other person would back off, they rarely did.

People pleasing is often the result of trauma. It's easy to label women who struggle with boundaries and confrontation 'wet', especially if you been raised to stand up for yourself because your parents weren't bullies.

However, it is fixable. Therapy and practice can cure it. Nobody gets to take the piss out of me anymore but it's been hard work and walking away from my user family and some 'friends'.

There is also the strange Mumsnet insistence that “No” should always be the default position. I have absolutely no problem with saying no- but I would always rather say yes if I can.

Lots of the "confrontation" people post about on MN is actually a normal discussion. I cannot believe how many times I read "I just don't like confrontation so will just keep quiet" about mundane things which would be just normal communication. Essentially got a feeling for many a simple talk is a confrontation.
"I don't like curry, friend wanted to go to curry house, I said yes because I don't like confrontation and had to make do with plain chips😔 Is my friend CF?"
If that makes sense

It was definitely installed into me. If I didn't 'please' I was chastised, ignored, walking on eggshells , shouted at, at best and hit at worst. For a long time it literally wouldn't ever occur to me that I could say no to someone's request.

Sometimes OPs just want a conversation and others' opinions and to make people laught too, which I think is fine, it is a forum for discussions after all.

But overall it often isn't a case of forgetting how to say no but not realising how to or even that it is an option.
CFs audacity can make you surprised too. Like 'surely they know that's unreasonable?! No, maybe it's me? '
If you don't have a lot of self confidence or self worth that is.

I think some people haven't read at least one of those threads mentioned properly and have forgotten how to be kind.

Starting a new thread, about other people's threads, just to have a go at people's characters from behind a screen, is rude and unnecessary.