to cut out DD's best friend

[ISthiswronggg]

In a pickle. I know you are not meant to judge other kids but I have always been a bit on edge about DD's best friend, let's call her Lisa. The girls are 8 years old. Lisa gets easily jealous and mopy.

An example from a playdate this week: DD did monkey bars very well, Lisa wasn't able to, she walked around moping about ignoring all DD's attempts to cheer her up and running away from her, then later on lied saying she's half deaf.

Another example from DD's birthday party, Lisa was in a bad mood (other family members noticed and pointed it out too), didn't want to participate in activities due to being in a mood and cried a few times due to noise. She tried to keep small prizes from a game, she'd hid them in her pocket and didn't confess until I said to Lisa's team, "well, someone here's not being honest because we're still missing 2 (insert item here)".

I once saw her getting a telling-off at school pickup, having clearly taken something from someone else that didn't belong to her.

Lisa can be very, very sweet at times, but encourages really poor behaviour in DD, whom may I add is nowhere near perfect herself and struggles with attitude problems for sure. But once she is with Lisa she is levels of disrespectful I can't even describe, and Lisa eggs her on and will say stuff like "Don't speak to (insert DD's name here) like that" to my partner and I, and will tell DD to do something she knows will piss us off.

I am, however, most concerned that Lisa apparently has a boyfriend and they talk about stuff like this at age 8?? They are kids for fucks sake! I find this so so inappropriate. Maybe that's just me? But I just want DD to not worry about stuff like this and just stay in an innocent, age-appropriate mindset.

But it's also Lisa's parents.... to put it briefly, they would let their kids get away with murder. They are so quick to point out when DD is being disrespectful but never, or so very rarely, when Lisa is. It's just so tiring.

I want to cut playdates but they're "besties for life", and parents reach out very often about playdates. Would cutting off contact be selfish or would you do it?

No. She’s only 8 and her parents are her major influence. Don’t blame the child.

Not only can you reduce contact (vastly!), you need to.
You need to encouraging your DD to make other friends and connections.
Invite other class mates for play dates, and hopefully she’ll start to realise how much more fun it is to play with people who aren’t sulkers or ‘pick me’s.

Err, yes you really can!

If Lisa says "you can't speak to her like that" you reply with "she's my daughter and I'll say what I like, in this household adults are in charge".

OP, your house, your rules. No way would I put up with an eight year old telling me how I could and couldn’t talk to my own child. That would be the point at which there would be no more invitations forthcoming, and I’d be telling my DD why, too. The fact that her parents are quick to pick up on your DD’s behaviour while ignoring that of their own daughter is another reason to cool off this relationship.

You can if it involves the way they speak to you.

Oh gosh, this is a bit of a reality check guys. Thank you.

Would also love to hear if people have similar stories/anecdotes, do share if you feel like it

Er, why not? I’d be saying “in this house, we don’t do backchat”. If she protests, say “you are welcome to go home if you don’t like the ground rules here” and then call her parents to collect her.

Oh god yes, we used to go on an activity holiday with friends who put their dc on a pedestal, accepted poor behaviour ,didn’t like their dc being told something was not acceptable, but then would subtly suggest my dc was responsible. the last holiday was the last straw, when their dc lost a race, had a tantrum and we had to redo it so that their dc could win. We never went with them again, as it wasn’t a constructive environment for my dc to relax and have fun. It was a shame as the mum is a very old friend of mine and a lovely person but we had such different parenting approaches and it was such a frustration when their dc was never pulled up. Not a good example for mine.

My DS had a friend at that age who I found really difficult. Helped himself to snacks in our house, told DS to do things he wasn’t allowed to do (in front of us) and wound DS up / isolated him from other friends. I stopped being constantly available for play dates / days out. I also did the “we ask first” etc if he tried to take things. I also started pointing out what he was doing in a matter of fact way to DS “I think x is winding you up”, “I think x doesn’t like you being friends with Y”, “I think x is trying to get you in trouble”. I didn’t reinforce apart from planting the seed as wanted DS to see it. By 10 yrs their friendship had run its course. I know other parents thought I was harsh not encouraging the relationship as they got on so well, but also those parents had issues when DS’s friend became their child’s friend later. The thing I struggle mostly with was the controlling behaviour - trying to change DS and telling him we were mean to have boundaries, while using us as providers of days out and snacks. Again, the parents were passive and did nothing to challenge bad behaviour.

You have had good advice, not sure why that would be necessary

I’d be inclined not to be available and encourage other friendships.
My daughter had a friend who was quite controlling and basically ruled the roost at her house. I could hear her putting my daughter up to saying things to me e.g. “go and ask your mum for some sweets for us”. I would calming say “no dear dinner is in 30 mins”. Next thing i heard her say “go back and tell her we want sweets”. At that point I just popped my heard round the door and calmly said “ xxxxxxx in this house the grown ups are in charge and when I say no, I mean no”. She went home about five minutes later. She did come to play again but never pulled any of that nonsense again. They eventually drifted apart.
Children need to know the boundaries - if they don’t accept them than they don’t get to enjoy my daughters company.

Either Lisa's parents won't mind you setting limits on Lisa's behaviour and you'll be able to modify the worst effects on your daughter, or they will mind and they'll stop with all the playdates, problem solved either way.

Of course you can, @ISthiswronggg - especially as her parents are 'quick to point out' when your dd is 'disrespectful'.

That said, I think I would cut back on the playdates as much as you can, and encourage playdates with other children, so hopefully your dd will find other friendships growing and eclipsing this difficult one.

This seems odd to me. If I’d left my child in another parent’s care for a play date, I would hope they wouldn’t let my child behave badly. And I would expect them to have rules that my child would have to follow.

I don’t think telling Lisa children aren’t allowed to speak to adults in that way at your house and if she cannot follow that rule she will have to go home, would be a telling off. It would be a matter of fact explanation much the same as explaining not doing something that would be harmful to her. Then follow through every time. She will either learn how she must behave in your home or stop coming.

set up play dates with other children. There’s bound to be some who are more suitable. Your daughter is likely to find peaceful play dates more enjoyable than being friends with Lisa

Guys. Evidently my partner and I have been such pushovers and have been really “strict” with DD yet perpetuated it by allowing both of them to talk to us like this and continuing on play dates, leaving all our ‘threats’ empty.

I have so many more examples but not listing as may be outing.

Your input is so valuable, thank you! I need to have a long hard look at my parenting.

I don’t think you’ve been pushovers. It is hard with other people’s kids, especially with things like manners that you take for granted in your own kids and get surprised by how much they can vary on other people’s. Just be confident that “our house, our rules” applies when you are hosting. I think it can be hard to shift from a starting point of wanting other kids to enjoy being at yours that sometimes it’s hard.

Thank you. My partner and I have talked about it often and we don't think they'd be okay with us calling out Lisa's behaviour, and since we see each other almost every day at school, we fear it would be very awkward. We know how precious they are about their kids. Also mum is a gossiper, I fear how it may get twisted. And God knows if Lisa would twist it!!

'Lisa eggs her on and will say stuff like "Don't speak to (insert DD's name here) like that" to my partner and I, and will tell DD to do something she knows will piss us off.'

I wouldn't reduce the playdates if they are 'besties for life' but I would make a point of taking my child aside to speak to her out of Lisa's earshot on occasions such as the example above. You will most likely find that they will drift apart as they get older naturally, anyway.

I would maybe ask if dd has any other friends she'd like to invite over for a playdate and just try to broaden the friendship pool a bit.