Tariffs: Why Is It Fine When Others Use Them, But Not the US?

[Swirlythingy2025]

Lots of countries use tariffs to protect their own industries like China, India, even the EU. But when the US does it, especially under someone like Trump, people act like it’s a global crisis. Why?

Checking the Bank of England inflation calculator, £8-£25 in 1970 prices is the same as £107-£337 now

I assumed the website meant $10 to $30 in today's money. I stand corrected.

I don't understand all the financial implications but his whole attitude is that of a narcissistic bully which immediately puts people backs up. He uses threats and downright nastiness which blurs what he's doing.

This is a fair point. If we move away from the sweat shop, unethical cheap labour model the more likely the US can counter.

How possible it is to do likely increases the fewer people working away at producing those cheap goods for the west.

Also you’ll often see on a why are our high st dying threads a mention of Temu etc. We seem to dislike that impact but not what could counter their proliferation.

Excuse me while I follow this mild diversion? The price of these jeans in today's money is £62, according to the Bank of England's trusty calculator. They wouldn't have been 'good' jeans which, iirc, cost around £12 and I saved up for months. These were probably made in India, which was the China of our day - along with Japan!

Yes, folks, Made in Japan used to be what Made in China is today. They didn't make our clothes, but no end of plastic doohickeys and low-priced kitchen appliances that you would kind of expect not to work properly. Also similar to 2020s China, Japan simultaneously put out precision engineering our factories could only gasp over and was quietly forging ahead technologically. (Well, our factories can't even gasp now, they're all dead.)

Don't ask me what that is on the guy's right leg or why 1970s models all had to stand with their legs apart like Theresa May at that conference ...

Most people talk a good game re purchasing/boycotting other countries products but the reality is they fail to live up to the talk.

It's like environmentalism. There is always an excuse. I NEED an SUV to cart around my 3 massive dogs.

The only thing that really works is government intervention. In fact I would argue it is one of the things we need governments for and if they aren't doing it then there is little point actually having them.

There probably weren't many "crap" clothes made and sold at all. My recollection of what my mother and grandmother used to say is that pretty much all clothes were of a reasonable quality as a basic expectation, which is why they moaned like hell during the nineties and noughties as the quality plummeted with globalisation and the race to the bottom.

Do we want a country where reasonable jeans cost £60-70, but more people have good jobs in manufacturing with good wages, instead of bad low-paid service jobs?
Jeans (and everything else) would have to be better quality and we would get rid of the environmental catastrophe of over-production and over-consumption of shoddy goods just to keep the consumer treadmill turning.

If this is what we want, tariffs are part of the answer to how we get there.

more people have good jobs in manufacturing with good wages, instead of bad low-paid service jobs

Why is 'manufacturing' a good job with a good wage? Factory work tends not to be a good job with a good wage.

Either manufacturing or service jobs can have good wages or bad wages.

Factory work can be a good wage, that is the point. Unions help.

Well then why isn't the focus in the US on improving wages for those in poorly paid service jobs instead of pretending that these incoming manufacturing jobs that have up till now been done by sweatshop labour and possibly children are going to be any better?

I am not commenting on or defending Trump or US policy.
I'm just explaining why tariffs can be a good thing.

Sure, but certainly not these tariffs.

I came on here to say that i don't have much to add to the debate on tariffs, but that I am quite sure that Trump is an absolute stark raving madman intent on crashing the world. His latest comments about world leaders queueing up to kiss his ass is one of the grimmest things I've ever heard a world leader say, and there has been some pretty stiff competition over the years. He is treating everyone else with utter disdain, and we've all become so dependent upon the US that all we can do is watch in horror as the car crash unfolds.

The only bright side is that even Russia is beginning to speak out against him. It won't be long before Golden Shower Gate puts an end to him.

I don’t think that this idea that millions will leave long term unemployment and get jobs in these new factories that still need to be built is not taking account of the fact that whilst factories abroad rely on very cheap labour, once you add up the labour bill and other costs for a US factory, it will either be cheaper to use automated machines rather than people to make a product. Or just carry on importing the product and the cost of the tariff passed on to the US consumer

Yes, and talking of child labour, the US isn't exactly moving in the right direction, tariffs or not: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article303763526.html

Skilled work in a unionised workplace will pay better than working in many service roles. Not that Republicans are friends of the unions. Or the working classes in general for that matter.

Well Trump banned collective bargaining in many federal work places so I can’t see him protecting unions in any way.

America is at almost full employment.

There is no huge army of long term unemployed to take these factory jobs that could be available in a few years after the new factories are built.
Though of course all the scientists and other very skilled government workers that DOGE is firing could probably start making jeans for minimum wage.

Of course you need certainty to allow people to invest otherwise why build a factory in the US when the tariffs against Vietnam might be gone next month, or in two years

And then there is the huge loss of skills and potential for innovation that will happen due to the cuts in research funding at universities and in federal agencies. So all the high end good jobs will be wherever the real research is happening.

And Trump has put the tariffs on hold.
Except for China

Thank you all for your various discussions on the subject.

Turns out we didn’t need all the chap manufacturing jobs after all.

Hope nobody was looking forward to their new low paid manufacturing job.

So he's now paused the tariffs on most countries, just like he did with Canada and Mexico. All this dithering will continue hurting business confidence.

Tariffs need to be targeted to achieve anything.

So if you want to protect a particular industry within your own country then you put tariffs on similar goods from other countries.

But there's not a country in the world that can produce everything. Either the climate is not right or they don't have the natural resources. So for example the UK placing tariffs on bananas just makes the price of bananas increase for UK citizens. So while he wants to increase US manufacturing, this will take years to put into place and in the meantime his citizens will have a HCOL due to all the tariffs.

The indiscriminate use of tariffs that Trump is using just makes other countries reluctant to trade with the US because there is no logic to it. The fact that he is using false figures and making comments like Australia won't accept US beef because of protectionism rather than because the US does not comply with Australian biosecurity regulations is also a concern. He also is only basing his figures on goods trading. The US exports a lot of services, not so much goods.

He also hasn't taken into account that other countries also want to protect their industries and will launch reciprocal tariffs.

@Buttonsbuttons yes he has been talking about tariffs for a long time and so yes it is arguable that he is doing what he said he would.

But his supporters don't seem to actually have thought through what that would mean.

And most rational people expected targeted tariffs, based on actual numbers and used in a way that would help his own people not make their lives harder. Thats what most people dont understand.

It depends.

If you have a shit load of personal debt on property then destabilising the market to drive interest rates down, has it's benefits.

Does Trump have his wealth tied up in stocks and shares or real estate?

Most of his supporters don't actually realize that tariffs are a tax paid by importers of foreign goods (and passed on to consumers). He's persistently lied to them on that, and right wing media doesn't usually push back. Only 14% of Fox (or other conservative media viewers) actually know what tariffs are...

The US right wing propaganda machine (and it's successfulness) is absolutely nuts.

I genuinely often feel quite sorry for his supporters, they know not what the do.