To wonder how many more horses will die?

[PinataHeeHaw]

There's already been one horse died at the Grand National. Sentient animals dying in the name of entertaining humans. It's sick.

I agree, and I am vegan. I despise horse racing, but it's easily a way worse life and death for those being farmed and slaughtered for meat, or forcibly impregnated and having their babies taken away so people can drink milk and have dairy products.
I do think both industries will die off, horse racing sooner, obviously, but there is far more outrage about it than there was 30 years ago, and veganism is on the rise too.

But yes yes to your comments about the hypocrisy of people upset about horses, whilst chowing down on cheeseburgers and cake.

I think a lot more could be done to improve safety in racing, and there's an argument for banning jump racing altogether.

But horses are stupid and they do injure themselves in their fields where they should be safe. Wild horses also injure themselves. Horses are big animals with tiny brains. If you want to stop horses injuring themselves, you need to abolish horses.

And they do love to run and jump. Horses that do not love to run and jump do not make it to any kind of competitive level. You cannot make a horse jump if it does not want to - conversely, anyone who has done any kind of jumping will know the feeling of the horse charging towards the jump in insane enthusiasm regardless of the risks.

"they make the risks greater every year "

They don't. There have been several modifications in recent years. The most important of these was the rebuilding of the fences 2012 to remove the high, solid wooden cores that caused very dangerous rotational falls when horses didn't get their front legs high enough. The cores are now made of plastic which has more give in it. The spruce on top is more loosely packed than it used to be and the fences are smaller. This results in far fewer fallers. There were a few unseats (where the jockey falls off but the horse doesn't fall) in the Grand National last year but no fallers. There were no fallers in the Topham chase today (over the spruce fences but one lap rather than two), although there were two fallers in the hunters' chase (amateur riders race over the same fences) yesterday.

The field size is limited to 34 now.
There are run off pens to give loose horses a chance to get off the course safely.
The race distance has been shortened slightly with a shorter run to the first fence to stop them getting up too much speed by the first.
The ground is watered to make sure it retains some softness, to avoid jarring the horses' legs when galloping, provide a softer surface in the event of a fall, and slow the runners down a bit , again to reduce the chances of falling.
The take off boards have been painted white instead of orange so its easier for horses to see them and judge the distance to put themselves right.
The big deep ditches were filled in years ago and the drop on the landing side of Bechers was pretty much levelled off years ago too.
A BHA panel assesses the suitability of each entrant for the race. Last year apparently six horses were banned from running as their jumping was deemed not good enough. This year at least one horse has been banned from running (Mr Incredible).

Despite all of the modifications, it's likely that horses will still occasionally suffer fatal injuries in the Grand National. The horse that was killed yesterday- Willy de Houelle- was a hurdler. Hurdles are quite a bit smaller than both the Grand National spruce fences and the more usual birch steeplechase fences. The new hurdles are made of padded synthetic material but horses can still trip over them occasionally.
Sometimes horses can also break a leg on the Flat as well, not necessarily when they're under pressure - it can just happen mid race when the horse is lobbing along.

The time of year were Cheltenham and every other horse race is ignored (78 dead horses at Cheltenham since 2000, 66 at Aintree) but the one Up North is picked on? Yep, it's that time of year. Will no-one spare a thought for the greyhounds? But then we'd have to consider the beagles we experiment on.

"But they preferably ‘die one day’ when they’re not being beaten to run as fast as they can in fear "

Hmm. Jockeys spend the vast majority of a race trying not to get the horse to run as fast as it can. You will often hear a lot of emphasis on teaching horses to "switch off" or "settle" - in other words, to cruise steadily through the race , conserve energy and get into a nice jumping rhythm instead of being impatient and pulling to get racing as soon as possible.
You generally only see the whip (which is now a short, foam cushioned thing that makes more noise than actual sting) used in the last few hundred yards of a race when the horse is finally asked for maximum effort and there are rules about how often and where on a horse it can be used (on the padded bit of a horse's rump, not the ribs) and jockeys aren't allowed to lift it above shoulder height. Anyone breaking these rules or using the whip on a tired horse which has clearly used all its energy and can't respond gets hauled in front of the stewards and banned from riding for a variable number of race days depending on severity and previous disciplinary record.

Oh I forgot- if your horse falls or you fall off you aren't allowed to remount and continue as you were in the past.
Any jockey continuing on an exhausted horse- even if they aren't using the whip- gets an absolute bollocking and a ban. The initials "PU" (pulled up) feature a lot in the race reports now where jockeys have felt that their horse is too tired (or sometimes, mostly over the birch fences, when the horse has made a very bad mistake and the jockey thinks it might have really frightened itself or wrenched a muscle even if it feels ok).

There are vet inspections before the race and drugs testing to check for any medications that could mask pain or injury. After the race there's a covered shaded area with misting spray to cool the horses down and vet assistance for any horse that might become overheated.

Horrible isn’t it, no need at all

Yet horses are still dying. If they're treated so nicely, why is this?

"Yet horses are still dying. If they're treated so nicely, why is this?"

Because being a horse is inherently a bit dangerous, and racing on the Flat is a little bit more dangerous than that, and racing over jumps is a little bit more dangerous than that. I think it's acceptable to use horses in this way and "choose" for them to take the risk (except for the likes of Mr Incredible- watching the replays of his races he doesn't want to be there, I don't think the trainer should have entered him in the race and certainly shouldn't have whined about it when the horse was banned). Many people think that this is unethical and that's fine. I just want to point out that the risks in the Grand National aren't "made greater every year for entertainment" as a PP suggested.

Everyone has to decide for themselves and pick a level of "dominion over the animals" that they think is acceptable, whether that's a completely hardline no pets, no farm animals, no captive animals of any sort including safari parks, no consumption of any animal products whatsoever including honey, or some other level. Also fine to discuss and debate what you think is ok and what is not.

It's not just racehorses. Any horse that can't be sold is sent to slaughter!

"But then we'd have to consider the beagles we experiment on."

It's actually really hard to get a licence to experiment on dogs or primates now. The vast vast majority of experimental animals are mice or rats (and a few rabbits and other small furries) and there are very strict rules pertaining to the keeping of lab animals and the experiments to which they can be subjected. Like, really strict. I have seen tumours and lung and eye infections and whatnot in pet rats and mice that would have made a Home Officer inspector explode with rage and withdraw licences if they were let get that far in a lab animal, ditto chronic dental disease in rabbits, boredom stress and conflict in all pet species way more than the lab animals, and all sorts of unaddressed chronically painful fuckuppage (arthritis, dry eye, otitis, inflammatory or ulcerative GI disease, the list is endless) in pet dogs cats and everything else, more than lab animals. Way more. It's mostly due to ignorance, and lack of money or time (or bothering make the effort) rather than deliberately thinking "I know my pet is suffering but I don't care" but the effect is the same.

The difference is that an elite athlete has a choice ..horses do not have the mental capacity to decide if they want to take the risk 🤷‍♀️

Is it cruel to let a cat outside? A lot of them don't have enough road sense to assess risk.
Domestic animals don't really get to choose most of their interactions with us plus they don't worry about the future so I think the ethics of "informed consent" don't really apply. When I get an owner to sign a consent form for general anaesthetic and surgery the animal doesn't get to choose if they want to take the risk. Police dogs don't get asked of they want to risk getting shot to help people at no benefit to themselves. Flyball dogs don't get asked if they want to risk ligament injuries for the fun of the race.

Horses are prone to catastrophic injuries, unfortunately. They are heavy, powerful, reactive animals on long, thin, spindly legs. They can suffer a breakdown at any time while exercising or competing and once they do it is nearly impossible to rehab them from it. When you have a young, fit horse you can’t just stick them in a box stall to recover. They will jump and pace and bash themselves around and make it worse because they aren’t used to having no exercise and outlet. And if you drug them or manage to keep them calm they often colic and die that way because their digestive systems need movement to work properly (colic= intestinal blockage with or without torsion).

I lost one of my favourite jumpers that way. She was 6 and was rehabbing beautifully from a tendon injury that she’d suffered suddenly during a round. She colicked and went from healthy to dead in 36 hours.

@Coatsoff42 Everybody will die some day. But it's generally frowned upon to kill them u necessarily. What a bizarre response.

Oh fuck off

Why would you assume that?

I have horses. I despise horse racing.

You seriously think that horses being clutses in fields and getting injured in fields equates to riding a horse to death for money.?

And you think this justifies riding an animal to death. Horses may or not enjoy galloping or jumping...... many of them don't. Those that don't or those that aren't fast enough to make money are disposed of.
As to not bei g able to make a horse do what it doesn't want to...... Its fairly easy to make horses do a lot of things that they don't want to either through fear or pain.
Race horses do not have the choice whether to gallop and jump. As you have said, they aren't that bright, they do what they have been trained to do since they were babies that shouldn't even have somebody on their back. And as herd animals, when ever other horse in the herd is essentially bolting, then they bolt too.

I never said that it did, or that the racing industry doesn't need changing.

What a ridiculous statement. You can own a horse without jumping it to its death.

@powershowerforanhour Thank you for such informative and helpful posts. I remember modifications being made decades ago to reduce injuries from landing on upward slopes but your knowledge of more recent and wider safety improvements is compelling.

You do realise the entire event is run over 3 days, don’t you? Or are you a simpleton?

I always wonder if any of the people who are so anti racing are horsey. Genuine question. I mean ride regularly, have a horse or have had one in the past.