DS threatened to kill me and no longer lives with me. Family members discouraging me from trying to visit him.

[HowChairsFly]

DS is 17. He had become increasingly abusive in the home and violent and this culminated in him threatening to kill me.

He no longer lives at home, he lives with his dad, and he is in no way stable.

He certainly has significant mental health needs - which I tried and tried to get help for while he was at home but services were consistently useless and he would not engage - he once attacked me with a metal bar when I was trying to take him to an appointment after which I did not try to make him go anymore fearing for my own safety. I still tried to encourage him to engage and to arrange interventions which were less stressful for him but nothing worked.

He has been in and out of hospital with self harm stuff, he’s been sectioned, he’s been chased by police numerous times.

He hasn’t threatened to kill me recently but he has told me repeatedly he would kill himself in front of me. I am in phone contact with him, and have been to see him, but I have also had to block him at times when he wouldn’t stop with vile abusive messages, and I know he still harbours significant anger towards me.

I have been trying to arrange to go and see him again but he keeps telling me not to come, and my family member is telling me that it’s not safe for me to go and I shouldn’t do so.
I have younger children at home who are recovering from their brothers behaviour and this family members point is that I need to stay safe for their sake.

His dad wants me to go and try to get him to come out with me. Matters are complicated by my ex being an arse who abused me when we were together and was harassing me last year and I will not go into his home where DS now lives, so DS would need to agree to come out to a restaurant with me. I didn’t want DS to live with his dad but social services ignored this and there he is.

I still love my eldest and I don’t want to abandon him. I don’t know what to do.
WIBU to go and see him even though he doesn’t want me to, and I’m being told not to?

If it is deemed he has capacity he has a choice where he stays and who he sees.

As challenging as it is you need to respect that choice.

To be honest so do social services. If the place he is staying put is with his dad, then they aren't going to challenge that. Financially it's too expensive to.

I'd question your exs motivation in pushing contact with you, regardless of your sons wishes. May be as much about offloading the problem back to you.

Social services may also rather he was with you and not with his dad. Which is why you are being treated as the problem. If they can convince you you are the problem and pressure you to say you are happy to take the risk and have him back if it blows up badly it's not on them.

Offer contact, show you care whether that's in person or not. Stay firm on your boundaries. You have a right to be safe in your own home

I have been trying to arrange to go and see him again but he keeps telling me not to come, and my family member is telling me that it’s not safe for me to go and I shouldn’t do so.
The best way to make someone feel frustrated, extremely angry and out of control is to continually ignore their very basic boundaries. He has repeatedly told you not to go. Does he have to kill you to get you to listen? Because he will one day, and then who is going to look after your other children?

Your other children have suffered enough. They need their mum. Putting yourself in danger is entirely unfair to them.

I can't imagine how helpless you must feel. You still love him and you want to put things right. But realistically you can't, and your other children need you. You cannot prioritise the brother who abused them and risk your own life.

Don't risk your relationship with your other children by ignoring their needs and putting yourself in danger.

Social services may also rather he was with you and not with his dad. Which is why you are being treated as the problem. If they can convince you you are the problem and pressure you to say you are happy to take the risk and have him back if it blows up badly it's not on them.

What on earth makes you think his social worker would want any of this to happen?

Experience!

he keeps telling me not to come

So don't go. Keep in touch by phone. You have responsibilities to your younger children, they need you alive.

@Icedlatteplease my immediate gut reaction to what you posted was ...yep.

Absolute nonsense

This - concentrate on yourself and your other children. Counselling, therapy,etc but contact is absolutely not safe and this is by text etc you can not see him unless it is in the highly secure environment with other family members (a number) present and he has no weapons or access to any. You might be murdered - if you continue down this path of forcing contact. That’s very real.

I wish it was. Now everytime social services try it, I tell them all critical conversations will be handled by solicitors here is their number. Social services treat us much better now than they did when we first needed their significant involvement, although they do still try it on every now and then.

You are making a number of assumptions here which you can't possibly know to be true. Why are you so convinced he is "wired wrong"? That just suggests he can't be helped. The OP has already stated her son was both abused by his dad and witnessed the abuse of his mum. It's not a "trauma card"! Nowadays, more and more HCPs diagnose complex trauma instead of a personality disorder, which is a much more meaningful way of treating someone's difficulties.

I believe the likelihood is he is traumatised. I agree. The trauma card is what I refer to as a deflection of responsibility by 'professional services' in order to assuage mum to take on responsibility for fixing something ( that probably can't be fixed).

Would it not be better to accept that the two can co exist. Is trauma the sole factor. I really doubt it. I doubt it passionately. Instead, when I read and hear certain things, in posts like this, I think of the complex interplay of environment, temperament and a host of other factors that result in a non fixable outcome.

I have significant experience in my personal life of personality disordered individuals, most also traumatised. I myself also traumatised but absolutely not personality disordered. I have however mimicked behaviour of a PD parent prior to extensive counselling I embarked upon.

At 17,a male especially,with this history, threatening to kill mum with added details provided by OP. Not on your god damn life do I think that risk is fixable. Your optimism is however nice. I also believe OP has had an instinctual knowing that something is slightly different here from early doors.

Of course I don't know any of these people but OP can determine if anything rings true. I have a feeling it will.

I dont see how trying to force him to see you against his will can help here, even if you ignore the risk to yourself.

Just stick to remote contact. If your ex cant cope he could kick him out, which would force SS to find a suitable place. At least he doesn’t have other children in the home.

When I have gone to see him it was at his request and either in hospital (when he was an in patient) or with the SW present. I haven’t forced contact.

His dad has various diagnosed mental health issues and having lived with the man and his behaviours for a decade I would say he has an undiagnosed personality disorder - yes.

DS has had issues right from nursery onwards, but I have no idea if these are a result of witnessing and experiencing DV, or genetic brain wiring issues from his dad, or a combination.

Regardless, he was my baby, and I have seen flashes of the nice little boy he used to be. I do believe he is incredibly vulnerable and that he is in the worst possible place with his dad, but I also recognise that he is a real risk to both me and himself, and that there is very little I can do to help him.

I feel very very sad about this. I never would have believed we would end up in this situation.

@HowChairsFly I'm going to get ripped a new arsehole for this but do you feel there's a chance he may be Neurodivergent. ( Autistic). And it's not because I equate it to being abusive at sll.

Sometimes there's a pattern like you describe with various co morbid conditions coming together. If issues are present early at nursery, my first thought is, hmm autism possibly. How something else came about in terms of personality disorder, I think we don't all fully appreciate exactly how that may occur. Being ND seems to increase the likelihood a personality disorder could develop because of genetics and environmental interplay ( that does not mean YOU mum btw).

I know it may be pointless if he'll never engage with any type of assessment but for your own sense of knowing it may help put pieces together. And what's awful here is people live with these things and no one ever assessed them properly. And that is not your fault either OP. I believe this situation is more common than anyone realises.

Focus on your other dc
He has professionals involved

Or is based on him growing up being abused by his dad and seeing his mum abused by his dad. Which 100% isn't OPs fault but his dad has certainly played a part in it.

I'm sure that has played a really significant part in his life.

My use of the term ' trauma card ' was not helpful here without further explanation. I believe in trauma and it's impact and live it.

My intent was to disparage the terribly shortsighted approach wherein trauma is found to be the focus and sole cause of a multitude of problems. Not in this case. I'm not feeling that here. The trauma card is used by professionals regularly and insidiously for various reasons. It completely fails to acknowledge the complexity of situations like this whete the outcome is not fixable in the way one would like to impress. It also undermines and invalidates the experience of mothers who may have had an instinctual awareness something else was going on from an early stage.

A lot of people have quite rightly made the point that you need to protect yourself, OP, and think of what's best for your other children.

I totally agree with that, but I also think there's no real sign here that it would do your DS any good for you to see him, either. In fact he seems to react badly to seeing you and is actively saying he doesn't want to.

I know this must be very painful for you, and I don't mean that you're to blame at all. I just wanted to make the point that you're not having to choose between "what's best for your son" and "what's best for you and your other kids." There's actually one course of action which seems to be best for everyone right now, and that's for you not to see him.

Yes, YABU.

Ignore your dad.

Do not visit your son and do not try to get hin to see you.

What good do you possibly think could come of this nonsensical idea?

You cannot help your son.

He has all sorts of involvement from professionals, and you need to just deal with your sadness apart from him.

This is very hard, and it's heartbreaking, but there is no way that seeing your son will make anything better.

Find someone other than your dad to lean on. Can you afford a therapist to help you get through this?

It's so difficult when you love someone ( a child) and you desperately want to be there for them yet at the same time you're at risk like this.

The counselling sounds like a good idea for OP as it's so traumatic and riddled with grief. It's like death in another form. Death of the idea in your mind, the hope they'd get better, the idea they love you in a way you love them. It's like death for OP I strongly believe. But they're still there, so you have agonising guilt and shame thrown in on top of the death like grief.

Unfortunately you have to NOT visit him for your own safety and that of your young children. Concentrate on them and yourself for now and keep safe.
I'm sure you do love your son, just as you love all your children, but for now a step back is best.