Page 4 | Restaurant Takings vs School VAT

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:22

RatedDoingMagic · 01/04/2025 23:27

Really, no.

If a family has 2 children at a £25kpa private school that has just gone up to £30kpa from VAT the school fees budget has just rocketed by £10,000pa. You do not address a £10,000pa deficit by cutting back on restaurant spend. Who spends anything like that in restaurants - £833 per month?

You would be more likely to sell the holiday home in cornwall or forego the skiing holidays for a few years - and might well increase the restaurant spend as a relatively cheap way to have a treat with the leftover funds thus released

If a family with children went out once a week, they could easily spend £150 with mains, desserts, drinks, service charge etc (around £650 per month). That’s an easy saving to make.

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:25

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:22

I did say for those already in the system. I think there’s another chat on the go about whether to start with private school education or not and this is where the real denting will come from (IMO) as people who may have entered will now not (maybe they’ll just prop up the restaurant industry instead 😉)

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Exactly this. Those already in the system will try their best to keep their children in their schools by reducing household expenditure.

Blankscreen · 02/04/2025 23:26

I've said this for months.

Our school fees went up £400 a month.

We've stopped the takeaways and eating out. Simple.

Other people I know have stopped their cleaner or the reduced the dog walker etc.

Not everyone has second homes to sell fgs.

Combined with lots of redundancies it's really tough for lots of businesses.

justasking111 · 02/04/2025 23:30

Friends with kids went to Legoland hotel last week, food grim and very expensive. Did the tour, rides the place was very quiet.

They spent one night in a lodge on a farm. Collected their own eggs for breakfast, fed the pigs and other animals. That was the best part of their break.

Other friends with kids join national trust, zoos, etc pay monthly DD. They take picnics only buy ice-cream.

Money is tight

Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:31

FairMindedMaiden · 02/04/2025 23:13

@PollyG23 We are moving to Canada, it’s 3-4 years and also through existing global employer. We’ve been considering it for some time and initially decided against it, but this last 6 months tipped us back the other way. When I read Phillipsons post around ‘our children’ we knew we made the right decision. House rented out from August 😬

Edited

Ah great- wishing you all the best @FairMindedMaiden I’m sure it’ll be an amazing experience for you and your family! Definitely feels like we’re the wrong demographic for this govt unf

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echt · 02/04/2025 23:34

PollyG23 · 01/04/2025 23:18

Restaurant takings are down YTD and most commentators are saying that it is due to NICS and min wage but surely a big factor is due to the VAT on school fees which is eating into middle class discretionary spending- why is no one mentioning this? (Or maybe I just haven’t seen anything?) What else is getting eaten into? (No pun intended)

The lengths the whining school fees VAT crowd will go to keep this one going.

Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:50

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:16

I know lots of private school families doing this. It’s definitely affecting local businesses. The first things to be cut back are exactly what you say - eating out, lunches (some takeaway places in London charge £15-18 for a nice salad lunch), coffees, clothing etc. On top of that, families aren’t replacing cars. In reality, giving up any of these things isn’t exactly a hardship (driving into work in an older car and taking your lunch isn’t a hardship in any way). It’s an easy way to save a lot of money per month. Kids at our school often go to the local cafe for a hot chocolate/milkshake. The cost of that is now around £5. A lot are now only going once a week rather than 2-3 times per week. Again, it’s no real hardship. Whilst it’s no hardship to those families, it is affecting small business owners.

I would say that VAT on fees has definitely had an impact, but it’s not the only thing. Business rates, NIC and living wage changes has made things too expensive. With higher mortgages/bills, families are stretched enough. They can’t afford nice extras any more.

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Agree @Another76543 I’m seeing this too which i do think is contracting the local (and hence national) economy.

That’s great savings@partyoffivvve I’m sure your kids will appreciate your economising.

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Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:54

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:22

If a family with children went out once a week, they could easily spend £150 with mains, desserts, drinks, service charge etc (around £650 per month). That’s an easy saving to make.

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Unf spot on for the south east- very normal and would not even be a “fancy” restaurant

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RockyRogue1001 · 03/04/2025 00:07

I'm soooooooo sorry to read your diamond shoes are too tight.

My heart bleeds for all of you and the choices you freely chose to take, and the fact you have to live with the consequences you knew you were taking. Adulting is so hard.

Interesting thread to start @PollyG23 on the day the bils rise and the COL rises.
So tell me, are you a Tory shill? Just here to wind things up just a little bit?

Another76543 · 03/04/2025 07:10

RockyRogue1001 · 03/04/2025 00:07

I'm soooooooo sorry to read your diamond shoes are too tight.

My heart bleeds for all of you and the choices you freely chose to take, and the fact you have to live with the consequences you knew you were taking. Adulting is so hard.

Interesting thread to start @PollyG23 on the day the bils rise and the COL rises.
So tell me, are you a Tory shill? Just here to wind things up just a little bit?

“My heart bleeds for all of you and the choices you freely chose to take, and the fact you have to live with the consequences you knew you were taking. Adulting is so hard.”

That’s the point. It’s no real hardship to cut back on spending on things like this. It’s an easy saving to make. However, it does affect small business owners and their employees when people spend less.

Swiftie1878 · 03/04/2025 07:17

People still have money, even those who scream that they don’t.
Try getting tickets to a live music gig these days - ticket prices are sky high, yet sell out in minutes. Including accessible zones for the disabled. At those concerts the food stall and merch stand queues are relentlessly long.
Flight costs to anywhere are very high these days too, yet all sell out.

If we’re all so skint, how?….

Original poster

PollyG23 · 03/04/2025 07:50

RockyRogue1001 · 03/04/2025 00:07

I'm soooooooo sorry to read your diamond shoes are too tight.

My heart bleeds for all of you and the choices you freely chose to take, and the fact you have to live with the consequences you knew you were taking. Adulting is so hard.

Interesting thread to start @PollyG23 on the day the bils rise and the COL rises.
So tell me, are you a Tory shill? Just here to wind things up just a little bit?

Mmm, bitter much @RockyRogue1001 ?My post was just speculating downturn in restaurant trade and correlation with VAT on school fees. The UK economy is 2/3 driven by consumer spending so the immediate multiplier effect of people having more money in their pockets is massively reduced if that same money is going straight to the govt instead which, with the best will in the world, will never be able to move that money on without a haircut for admin/bureaucracy. It’s is poor use of money.

Tbh school fees or otherwise, and aside from use in tracking business fraud which i get, I’m not really a big fan of VAT in general- i don’t really see the justification in paying the government just for buying stuff- what’s their input in the process been? It disproportionately affects the poorest in our society for whom VAT is the highest % of their disposable income. I also think it’s too high atm- the UK started paying VAT when it joined the EEC in 1973 @ 10% we’re now at 20%, no wonder we have a COL crisis.

FWIW i actually voted Green at the GE so way off! Posting date entirely coincidental- i just had some free time so went on MN.

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ChorusOfDisapproval · 03/04/2025 07:59

VAT was originally designed to be a tax on luxury items. Private school fees are a luxury, not an essential and therefore should attract VAT.

Another76543 · 03/04/2025 08:03

ChorusOfDisapproval · 03/04/2025 07:59

VAT was originally designed to be a tax on luxury items. Private school fees are a luxury, not an essential and therefore should attract VAT.

A decent education should never be seen as a luxury. State education has failed many children. In any case, VAT is not a tax on luxury. The previous tax on luxury was abolished. Toilet paper is subject to VAT, but caviar is not.

Didimum · 03/04/2025 08:04

YABU for the fact that the restaurants themselves are saying it’s due to NICS and minimum wage. They can see from their operating costs where their profit is down. If they are taking the same turnover and their operating costs are higher, then it’s not less customers causing the downturn in profitability.

sageGreen81 · 03/04/2025 08:07

Yes we are eating out a lot less however we are doing other things a lot less. Eg clothing, food, less travel, just cutting down full stop, so yes in a sense the money is still in the economy just going to VAT.

the only thing I would say is I have 2 friends who are GPs and they are not putting their younger kids into private the older ones are year 10 so they can’t move them now. As a result they plan on reducing to 3 days a week as they don’t need the extra income. I guess that’s reduced income tax and NICs too. oh and extra kids in the state sector. The older kids will move to our local sixth form.

whosaidtha · 03/04/2025 08:09

But what about all the kids pulled out of their private school and going to state school instead. Their parents have an extra 20k a year to spend in restaurants now they aren’t paying school fees.

Whatafustercluck · 03/04/2025 08:12

PollyG23 · 01/04/2025 23:27

Not what i was meaning @TheGrimSqueakersFlea (as Im sure you know) but that that particular demographic has seen a marked reduction in discretionary income which is affecting restaurants and i’m also interested in speculating what other adjacent sectors and what people’s view are

@neverknowinglyunreasonable that was quite funny!

By 'particular demographic', do you mean the just 7% of the adult population? Because I think the news is probably concerned with what affects the majority of people, most of the time. And if the 7% are sacrificing a few meals out (are they, though?) while others are considering food banks and feeding their kids but going without themselves, then I rather think that puts things in perspective, don't you? The reality is that everyone is tightening their belts, which is having an impact on hospitality. And other sectors, too.

Another76543 · 03/04/2025 08:14

whosaidtha · 03/04/2025 08:09

But what about all the kids pulled out of their private school and going to state school instead. Their parents have an extra 20k a year to spend in restaurants now they aren’t paying school fees.

They tend to be the families who were very squeezed anyway. The savings won’t just be spent on eating out. At least some will be going towards increased mortgages and COL, catching up with pension contributions, replenishing depleted savings etc. Some will choose to reduce their working hours or retire earlier than planned.

SwanOfThoseThings · 03/04/2025 08:18

Whatafustercluck · 03/04/2025 08:12

By 'particular demographic', do you mean the just 7% of the adult population? Because I think the news is probably concerned with what affects the majority of people, most of the time. And if the 7% are sacrificing a few meals out (are they, though?) while others are considering food banks and feeding their kids but going without themselves, then I rather think that puts things in perspective, don't you? The reality is that everyone is tightening their belts, which is having an impact on hospitality. And other sectors, too.

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As I mentioned earlier, it is far from '7% of the adult population'. It is 7% of the adult population who have school-aged children - a much smaller percentage of the total population, as those with grown-up children and the childfree will not form part of adult population from which the 7% is taken.

Original poster

PollyG23 · 03/04/2025 08:39

whosaidtha · 03/04/2025 08:09

But what about all the kids pulled out of their private school and going to state school instead. Their parents have an extra 20k a year to spend in restaurants now they aren’t paying school fees.

I think it’s like @sageGreen81 says- state and working less or as @Another76543 says- replenishing depleted savings, pensions, mortgages etc

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Educationpony · 03/04/2025 08:43

whosaidtha · 03/04/2025 08:09

But what about all the kids pulled out of their private school and going to state school instead. Their parents have an extra 20k a year to spend in restaurants now they aren’t paying school fees.

Yes we know a couple of these people and they are spending the money in Spain, Japan, Dubai as now they can go on big holidays every year instead of once in a while.

Personally I have cut back on most of my coffees (used to be £3/day = :£15 minimum a week), lunches (sandwiches or home made over eating out) and dinners (we used to go out around 3-4 x a week but now go to less expensive places or est out 1x a week). I also don’t buy stuff unless I need to or it’s on sale like clothes etc. it’s not just VAT on school fees that’s causing us to spend less, generally all the prices have gone up so much that it’s getting too expensive to eat out all the time and just not worth it.

TesterP0t · 03/04/2025 08:49

PollyG23 · 01/04/2025 23:18

Restaurant takings are down YTD and most commentators are saying that it is due to NICS and min wage but surely a big factor is due to the VAT on school fees which is eating into middle class discretionary spending- why is no one mentioning this? (Or maybe I just haven’t seen anything?) What else is getting eaten into? (No pun intended)

What a ridiculous assumption. Only 6% are privately educated and most of those won’t even notice the vat on school fees.

Frowningprovidence · 03/04/2025 08:50

I think this is a ridiculous stretch to be honest and I was against the VAT on fees.

Lots of restaurant goers don't have children in school, Lots of restaurant goers have children in state school. It would be a teeny bit of thier potential customers.

I also don't know which restaurants were included but I live in a posh bit of surrey and lots of people with more money don't eat in certain chains much anyway. So if those chains are down it's not vat on fees. I could just about see a very pricy independent family restaurant noticing a drop.

TesterP0t · 03/04/2025 08:51

Also eating out is something the vast majority have had to do without for some time. Most people are worrying about heating bills not private school
fees.🙄