People begging outside of supermarkets

[Beautifulweeds]

I can hardly ever stop by anyone begging, especially those with a dog, without giving what I can.

Thing is, these days, we don't carry much cash, but I always make sure I have some on me.

There was a Romanian lady with the big iissue outside of an aldi, with a dog, who I bought treats for and gave her some money every week. Then she appeared in local news about being involved in child abduction! Didn't see her again but she has been replaced by another old Romanian woman, no dog this time fortunately. I have less generous about paying for the big issue from her, which I never took, just offered a donation.

Also, other people who sit in the floor and are friendly outside of other supermarkets. Often 3 of them, so who to give to?

I've noticed some will only be there for a couple of hours and move on.

I'm a sucker I know, can't bear to pass anyone who seems like they need help. At the times I had absolutely no money for myself I would still feel guilty.

Sorry, guess my question is how to know when someone is genuine? I tend to think if anyone is willing to sit and beg they're genuine but experience has shown could just be part of a bigger mercenary business.

This is a fact! Not the unkind bit at the end but in my experience the Romanians have been operating as a business, I used to work on Oxford st in central London and you see them dropped off all together in the morning. They hide their phones in their bags or their bras, get their signs out (which are all written in the same handwriting with the same message, usually ending in god bless) and they go about their day. I saw it day in day out. I do a lot of volunteering with the homeless so can often spot the business beggars.

i don’t know if they do this now, but in my home country women used to hire children to take begging with them for the day as they would get more money!

There’s often one outside my local Sainsbury’s who quite aggressively asks for money
i can’t understand why he isn’t told to leave by security.
Im in a Wiltshire market town, so not a big city!

You’re clearly very angry, but physical assault and slagging off people just trying to do their jobs isn’t ok and certainly not something for you to be proud of your husband for. If it was a date and you reported that to Mumsnet we’d all say how much of a red flag the behaviour is- how people treat others is an indication of their morals and character.

You clearly care @Beautifulweeds & I agree it’s very difficult,but I think the only way to me sure is to donate to reputable charities or make a street link referral as pp suggested. Otherwise you could ask if they like food or a drink if you are comfortable doing so.

We have some outside our local Greggs. As I pop into a Greggs when occasionally in the office, I’ll buy a buttie and a coffee and give it to them. But never money.

There should be a way of reporting these chuggers. Is there?

This.

The two local Romanian “homeless” Big Issue sellers in my area have been here for at least 15 years. They’re dropped off to their pitches around 8 am by their boss before the shoppers arrive.

That's the theory with the Big Issue - but it's so lost its way from what it was originally set up for, it's unreal.

It is still usually effectively begging - especially when done by the persuasive-looking organised gangs - as everybody knows the (supposed) deal; the unspoken assumption that the seller is a person without a home and with very little money, so you can either buy the magazine (whether you care to take/read it or not) and enable them to buy food, or otherwise they go hungry out all night on the streets.

It's a nice idea that people are transacting with you and your business because they genuinely want the product that you're selling; but who would ever choose to buy it if it were at a street kiosk that makes no claims to being anything other than a normal retail business?

Big Issue HQ seem to have swallowed the Ned Flanders-type kool-aid and desperately try to defend and see the good in what are very clearly not honourable, genuine or well-intentioned people. They now let anybody sell it if they want to, regardless of homelessness/vulnerability or other actual need.

I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but I merely wonder whether some of the people linked to the organised gangs may have deliberately infiltrated the organisation to work from within and steer it to their own ends.

They will accuse people like us on this thread of racism or xenophobia against Eastern Europeans; but it has nothing at all to do with their nationality/race/background and everything to do with the chosen shady, deceitful actions of those who do this.

As far as I can tell, it varies depending on the town. The last place I lived had nobody outside Aldi, but several beggars outside Tesco and Sainsbury's. The town I'm currently in has some regulars outside Aldi, Lidl, and Marks & Spencer (but none outside Tesco or Sainsbury's).

You see these people operating all across Europe. Before anyone accuses me of racism, I happen to be half Eastern European myself.

I've seen them operating in the former Soviet Union, in former Yugoslavia, in Western Europe.

One time I was accosted in Majorca. Saying "No!" in English just encouraged them. I found that telling them to go forth, multiply and be fruitful in Russian was much more effective.

I used to offer to get them a hot drink and whatever food item they wanted, but they either got angry and demanded money or took the absolute piss in what they asked for.

It really opened my eyes and I have started donating directly to charities I believe in.

The aggression scared me quite a bit actually, and it's such a shame. I always try to treat everyone as humans. I make eye contact and smile, I say hello. But I've stopped doing even that now, as it seems to start them off.

The best way to help anyone who is genuinely homeless is to support official charities - Shelter or Crisis for example. Also there are lots that operate locally. Or the Sikh Langar charities.

You can also contribute to foodbanks - with food (obviously) but also directly with cash so they can buy in what they are short of. Bigger set ups like Trussell Trust also campaign politically to try to change society so that we get to a place where foodbanks aren't needed.

I work with a homeless charity. The beggers arent homeless. Do not ever give them cash

Just round the corner from my Dad and Brother's a homeless man has made a makeshift house for himself in a disused electricial substation.
He goes to the local council run swimming baths and gym for a shower every other day and kind locals give him spare change so he can buy yellow sticker items from the local Morrisons. The manager of the store gives him shampoo toothpaste and brushes and shower gel every month. I bought him pie and chips a few weeks ago.
He used to be a actor but had a mental breakdown when his younger girlfriend left him.
He washes his clothes in a small stream that backs onto the substation and made himself a washing line near it.
He isnt eligible for UC because he hasnt worked since 2007.
Very well spoken and articulate i cant understand why he cant work he is able bodied and has a degree and even a masters but i dont judge.

If you see things like this then you must report it.
It’s likely it is modern day slavery or human trafficking.

The ‘beggars’ won’t be receiving any of the money and I dread to think what else the gang leaders make them do.

These people may be con artists but many of them are victims who have no choice but to do what the gang leader says.

Do not give them money because they won’t get any of it and it will encourage the gang leaders to push them to work harder, knowing there is a market for it.

Contact the actual modern day slavery helpline over the police because they will know how to handle it better.

OP you sound lovely 💐

It’s a shame that we have to advise you not to give money to people who you think are struggling but it’s the sad reality.

Work on saying “no sorry” and carrying on walking.

Then donate physical items to the food banks and dog shelters etc instead.
You could even volunteer for an hour a week if you want to do more.

They shouldnt be begging but I also think people need to learn to say no more and not this new thing 'certain things need to stop or be banned because I have no self control to say no'

I really wish people would stop giving them anything, they would soon stop doing it. It gets on my nerves when they ask for money. I thought it was illegal to ask for money?
We went to meet friends in another town and 2 men, swigging from cans of beer, were positioned at the ticket machine in the car park. They were harassing a poor woman. Dh had to pay by card as even he didn’t want to get his wallet out in front of them.
As we were there they were joined by a few other ‘beggars’ also drinking alcohol. It was quite intimidating.

Yea I have had them removed from outside Waitrose too putting people off including myself going into the main door

We had a lady right outside a local M&S. I didn't use it regular, just clothes for DH and school shirts for DS . I always felt uncomfortable going in. She s not been there for a while now!

I won't give money to to any beggars nowadays, even if they are genuine. I used to now and again but unfortunately most of them take it as sign that you've signed some of agreement to give them money every single time you see them and start being a nuisance. There was a guy in my local high street that I gave a quid to a few times,then he started making a nuisance of himself,following me into shops and even collaring me in a coffee shop for money. Always with a hard luck story. It got to the point where I had to be quite rude to him to make him stop bothering me.

Please NEVER give money to homeless people. Ever. A sandwich, a drink, a cheap blanket in cold weather- fine. But don’t get drawn in. And don’t be getting your purse out in front of them. Even if you’re giving them a pound or two- it adds up. Don’t keep funding the drugs problem on our streets.

I remember when I was 17/18- I was working as an apprentice and I was taking cash to the bank to be paid in. A group of Romanians circled me and I shit myself- I had a Saturday Christmas period takings in my bag. A guy walked past with 2 Rottweilers and intervened. They soon scarpered.

Then about 2/3 winters ago- it was bitterly cold. I’m talking it was going to be well into minuses overnight and there was a young lad satshivering himself half to death. I went into the local Argos and brought him a winter tog duvet and gave him an old fleece from the back of my car. He nearly cried bless him.

I went down the row of shops nearest to home; first M&S Foodhall, where I was asked in the carpark if I could spare the price of a sandwich. I replied, truthfully, that I don't really carry cash these days.
Next stop, the local newsagent /off licence to settle my paper bill, again by card, and I saw the same man lingering just outside. I mentioned the incident to the shopkeeper, who I know pretty well, and he told me that the gentleman in question is another regular customer of his, spending as much as £60 a day on wine and cigarettes.
My cousin, when similarly asked for the price of a sandwich, replied that he didn't have cash on him, but was going in to do a grocery shop with his debit card, and if he would like to specify a filling, he would happily get him a sandwich. The response was not enthusiastic.

Good intentions and all that..

There is a real difficulty in getting actual homeless people with drug/drink addiction issues and/or mental health issues, to show up and sell routinely at a regular pitch.

So then you get pitch wars, with the person at a less favourable pitch pissed off to find the person with a nicer pitch is frequently not showing up, so nicking their pitch...(and various other issues!)

The Big Issue requires lots of people out selling it, reliably...

There is also a huge leap to be made from 'selling the big issue' to 'able to get a real job and actually support yourself' and those who were doing well who made the leap into a rental property, then lost the Big Issue job... and couldn't quite make the leap into proper employment, 'normal life' (remember for many people this means dealing with health issues AND totally altering your social circle and neither of those things are easy to do, doing both at the same time is beyond many people)..

SO then the rules changed so you could sell the BI even if you weren't actually homeless, designed with the best of intentions to support people more fully from sleeping rough to having a home.

But that paved the way for those who wanted to take advantage.

And all along, the magazine industry has been failing and drowning ever more each year so the desire to police this properly and eradicate the misuse of the scheme has waned somewhat!