to wonder why Lent fasting has become so diluted?

[Wonderingwhyyy]

I was talking to a Christian who told me she fasts the traditional way in Lent. No food or water from sunrise to sunset. She was the first I had met who actually abstains from food and drink for a significant period of time.

Other Christians I know choose to give up one food e.g. chocolate, wine, tea, coffee. One Christian told me she gave up Facebook for Lent.

The Christian who said she fasted the traditional way told me she gained many benefits such as spiritual closeness to God, self discipline, greater self control.

It did make sense. Giving up Facebook doesn't seem likely to bring many benefits although may it did for that one person.

I wonder why it became diluted and whether Christianity has lost its followers by allowing most things it did not used to.

Everyone gave up something when I was at school. 70s to early 80s Catholic school and all church goers.
Generally it would be sweets, chocolate that sort of thing.

My older family members gave up meat, fish and alcohol as well but I don’t recall any fasting sunrise to sunset.

So yes things have become diluted
However
Lots of things have changed overtime.

In the Catholic Church ( for example ) in previous centuries you were
only permitted to eat meat a couple of times a week
only fish on Fridays
Fasting before taking the host on a Sunday ( so no breakfast for example)
women wore head coverings
men sat on the right, women on the left in church
everyone went to confession before they took the communion
no work on Sundays
the Angelus bell ringing at 12pm and 6pm every day.
etc

Most things change or are adapted over time

There is no suggestion by Jesus called the Christ that women cannot preach. Indeed, his followers included many women and on Easter Day he chose to show himself first to women, one of whom was Mary Magdalen. My church has a woman rector, and it's fine. Some churches in the diocese do not have/will not have women as celebrants and that's fine by me, but it's not true to what was accepted and done by the early Christians.

Even when Catholics observed a much stricter fast than any do now, it wasn't a sunrise to sunset thing, it was about limiting food (not water) intake. If you're Irish, St Patrick's day (sometimes the three days around St Patrick's day) was never part of Lent.

Personally, I've given up alcohol and am missing it more than I expected. And sweets, which is not a problem.

I once asked a Trappist friend how much difference the relaxation of the rule of silence made, post Vatican 2, and he said not that much, but that he'd checked the archives of his monastery and noticed that life expectancy went up a lot after the fasting rules became less strict - he thought it definitely dated from that, rather than from the start of availability of antibiotics from a decade and a half earlier.

I'm Eastern Orthodox and we are vegan throughout Lent.

The EO Church has apostolic succession from the time of Christ and has retained practices from that time through the Church Fathers and Saints.

I know several (married) couples who have given up sex for Lent. I've given up drinking anything other than water one year, given up meat one year and given up chocolate quite a few years. I have also done 24 hour fasts for religious purposes.

I don't know anyone Christian who has fasted morning until night like you describe though.

Orthodox Christians from Eritrea, Ethiopia and Egypt may fast for several hours each day. Other Orthodox Christians give up meat and dairy for Lent. Someone laughing at someone else's fast has lost the spirit of the fast, it is between you and God.

Sold it to pagans.

I find it hard to fast that length of time. Technically speak Christian are supposed to fast. There also other you are meant to asstain from meat, dairy and oil.

I can think of only one example of that, of hand. Jesus in the desert just after his baptism.

I’m an Eastern Orthodox Christian. So we have lots of fasting around the year but that doesn’t mean we always observe it, it is expected and encouraged though.

Every Wednesday/Friday is supposed to be no meat/dairy/egg with a few exceptions around the year for example the week after Easter as it is a happy week.

Then we also have four important fasting periods in the year. The lent for Christmas, starting from 15/11, the Lent in August from 1/8 till 15/8 day for the Dormition of the Mother of God, a small Lent sometimes in June for the Holy Apostles and of course the Lent for Easter which is the longest of all, lasting seven weeks.

It was established when all Christians were the same in the 4th century AD. Afterwards the Catholics went their way, did their own thing and later the Protestants etc.

Anyway the Great Lent for Easter it’s the strictest normally is no meat/egg/dairy/oil and wine (generally no alcohol) between Monday to Friday for the last five weeks (the first 3 it’s a gradual introduction to that) During weekends oil and alcohol are allowed. The beginning of the strict part is on a Monday called “Clean Monday”, this year was on 10/3 . (Note: not all Christian Orthodox are using the Julian calendar but some churches like the Church of Greece, Cyprus, Romania etc use the revised Julian calendar which is like the Gregorian)

What I didn’t know even I’ve been an Orthodox Christian all my life is that in the past and still some very obedient Orthodox Christians on Clean Monday till Clean Wednesday (so 3 days in a row) would have no food and no water if they could and then they would have Holy Eucharist on Thursday and continue with the strict fasting.

Most Orthodox can’t or do not want to try to fast all these days per year or they do something that suits them for example at least no meat during the whole Lent. Many people try though to fast during the last week -the Great week. Starting from Monday till Saturday night even if they receive Holy Communion for example on Great Saturday, the fast has to end after the midnight on the Easter Sunday (early hours).

When I was little I fasted once very strict so completely vegan from Monday to Easter Sunday after the midnight. We had pasta in tomato sauce, bean or lentil soups with no oil, fruit , bread with honey or tahini, salads no olive, boiled potatoes etc. It was very difficult but I remember a nice feeling in the end and how much more excitement I had for the Easter meal and all the other Easter delicacies.

I’m a breastfeeding mum for years and can’t fast but also aware I’m not trying enough. This year I will try to go vegan during the Great week but can’t not even use a sort of oil to cook my food like olive oil or sunflower oil. Lots of people do what I’m describing and try maybe at least the no oil day to be the Great Friday.

As I said it’s expected or encouraged and everyone can discuss his situation with his spiritual father, especially if he would like to receive Holy Communion.

Strictly speaking there’s also advice on giving up on various other things too like smoking or sex, you’re not supposed to get full on vegan food just because it’s vegan even if it’s “allowed” so basically fight your own “passions” especially if you intend to receive Holy Communion or at least in the Great week where it’s the “Week of the Passions of Christ”.

Only one religion comes to mind as to medieval thinking (assuming you think medieval thinking - one of the most dynamic times in most of Europe, when laws, the sciences, philosophy, the arts flourished - is a bad thing) and it's not Christianity.

Nope, cutting out things is not ‘fasting’

again, Christians have never fasted for Lent.

Firstly, let us not judge. Are you a Christian?
I’m orthodox Christian and for us lent isn’t about not eating like during Ramadan but to eat certain things only. Like no meat or fish, no sugary treats etc
Secondly, what is lent about? It’s about not giving into temptation. To quieten your flesh and spend time reflecting on your life. So for some people chocolate IS the biggest temptation, for some it’s social media. It’s all good. As long as you understand what you’re doing and why - it’s all that matters really.

I was raised Christian and there was never any expectation to properly fast for lent, that was generally viewed as something that happened a long time ago and not relevant to modern times. There was quite a lot of giving up luxuries or treats lent. I know Christians who still do that.

As a Catholic I was brought up Ash Wednesday and Good Friday were days of fast and abstinence (no meat no treats) and you did something for lent like give up sweets or go to mass each morning.

Well, reading this thread has helped me. I shall be abstaining from MN in the hours of daylight from today until Easter. Bye!

Moses, Elijah, Jesus - and that's from a brief Google :)

Not sold.
Making money would defeat part of the purpose of giving in Lent.

Any savings from abstaining would be given away.

You're confusing organised religion with weaponised religion. Faith helps a lot of people get through the day and many good works are done by faith organisations.

Our local Salvo's shop has 'belief in action' as a motto, they do outreach to people who would otherwise fall through the cracks.

Some of the Pentecostal/ Baptist Christians fast from suns rise to sunset not only at Lent but throughout the year.
A woman I worked with drank only water for three days and said that it brought her closer to God as it gave her more spiritual strength..
She told me that even people who practise Satanism fast to get more evil powers
In the Pentecostal churches solely ‘fasting’ from social media is not proper fasting
I was brought up a Catholic and I was always taught that you gave up something that you loved for Lent. As a child I would give up Mars bars for Lent but would eat other chocolate .
I think it would be interesting to read about the spiritual benefits of fasting

Other religions do have diversity but the rules around fasting in those religions have not been diluted.

Diluting? My child goes to catholic school hardly any children fast. None in her class. It doesn't make them less close to god, they follow the sacraments and regularly attend mass. Why do you care if you aren't a Christian, why does it affect you?

OP you still haven't posted a link to your research?

It varies according to Christian denomination. Many of those in the UK did not include daylight fasts, though abstention from meat, eggs, and dairy was common. Hence Shrove Tuesday, when you use up those things ready for Lent! I grew up with a ‘traditional’ fast, including no sugar.

She is not doing a starvation fast.

Jews and Mormons do 24 hour fasts without getting ill. The vast majority of people fasting without food or drink do not get ill. Fasting improves health and triggers autophagy. Giving up meat, chocolate, tea, Facebook does not bring about the improvements to health like total fasting does.