to wonder why Lent fasting has become so diluted?

[Wonderingwhyyy]

I was talking to a Christian who told me she fasts the traditional way in Lent. No food or water from sunrise to sunset. She was the first I had met who actually abstains from food and drink for a significant period of time.

Other Christians I know choose to give up one food e.g. chocolate, wine, tea, coffee. One Christian told me she gave up Facebook for Lent.

The Christian who said she fasted the traditional way told me she gained many benefits such as spiritual closeness to God, self discipline, greater self control.

It did make sense. Giving up Facebook doesn't seem likely to bring many benefits although may it did for that one person.

I wonder why it became diluted and whether Christianity has lost its followers by allowing most things it did not used to.

tbf those perceived flaws are not exclusive to Christianity, not by a long shot.

The whole basis of the health benefits of fasting is that we are meant to fast. That before industrialisation we had to go for long periods of time between eating and that our bodies have not evolved to constantly eat and snack 3-5 times a day. As with most religious beliefs (especially Abrahamic religions) they are based on practices that were in place to ensure survival at that time in that area that were just made into religious observances.
Even so, I'm not quite sure what the point you are trying to make is. Some Christian sects may have, according to you adopted Muslim fasting practices, maybe because they are from places in Africa with a large Muslim population, but fasting has not been 'diluted'. It was not done like that for the vast majority of Christians and its not the point of the Lenten fast at all. If anything, your friend, by adopting Islamic practices and mocking people 'giving up facebook' has 'diluted' the meaning and purpose of the Christian Lenten fast.

Lent is related to Christs 40 days in the desert, where he was subjected to temptation by the Devil and overcame. That is why Christians fast during lent, to face temptations and resist them. Temptations can be from facebook or chocolate or whatever. 40 days from Ash Wednesday leads to the week before Easter, Palm Sunday, which commemorates when Jesus returned to Jerusalem after 40 days in the desert. Therefore the period between Lent and Easter is 46 days, not 40 days. Because of this, Sundays are days off from fasting anyway!

As with most religious beliefs (especially Abrahamic religions) they are based on practices that were in place to ensure survival at that time in that area that were just made into religious observances.

That is not the case @Tomatotater Practices to ensure survival were not made into religious observances. They were religious observances to be followed and practiced in times of difficulty, hardship and ease.

I don't think it is the case that some Christians have adopted Muslim style fasting. It has been mentioned by a few people in this thread of Christians in the UK fasting from sunrise to sunset. They are not adapting to Muslim style fasting. They believe that is the way that fasting should be.

So not eating pork and shellfish is supposed to bring you closer to God? Or is it because there was no refrigeration 2000 years ago and you were more likely to get food poisoning from those foods? Easter and Christmas in themselves have been changed around to match pagan customs and rituals.
Christians who follow this fasting are not following any bible verse that tells them to do this though. they have decided for themselves, or some pastor has told them to do it. I presume the Quran tells followers to fast during Ramadan. Nowhere in the Bible does anyone instruct fasting from food and water during Lent. Evangelical Christian churches are newer than Catholic and Orthodox churches, so all they have done is make newer, stricter practices for themselves. It cant be dilution if it wasn't happening in the first place and someone has decided that their followers should do it. They have added something on that wasn't there in the first place.

Why?

Obeying the commands of God brings one closer to God. It is nothing to do with refrigeration and food poisoning. Dietary prohibitions apply no matter what time people are living in.

Dietary prohibitions apply no matter what time people are living in.

So why have dietary prohibitions changed? It is no longer a prohibition for Catholics to eat meat on Friday, or to not eat on Sunday mornings before communion. If something was prohibited 400 years ago but isn't now, then your statement is false.

Catholics are supposed to abstain from meat on Fridays and to fast for a short time before receiving communion. Lots of people ignore both, but that's up to them, like the family described upthread that never observed the Lenten fast.

No, that's my point. The ban on eating meat on Fridays was removed in 1984. So the dietary requirement HAS changed.

The ban on eating meat on Fridays was removed in 1984 - in the UK? Then it was reinstated in 2011.

Yes things change, and change back, and get ignored, and get observed, because there are about a billion Catholics in the world and they all make their own mind up on things.

The Jewish dietary rules deriving from Leviticus were completely undone after Peter's vision on the roof:

He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. Acts 10:11-16

So yes, rules change.

It was removed in 1966. You were supposed to do some sort of sacrifice / penance instead.

The reason it was removed was that a rich person could feast on fish and other 'allowed' food but the family down the street had to throw away the leftovers of a meal that otherwise could have been eaten.

Part of the reason for bringing it back was to make RCs more public.

Yes things change, and change back, and get ignored, and get observed, because there are about a billion Catholics in the world and they all make their own mind up on things.

@DeanElderberry this would explain why fasting can be giving up chocolate or Facebook.

Not perceived actual - watched the ABC on Sunday morning and was horrified.
No they aren't exclusive to Christianity, but why would you step out of ordinary life to go to church and face such issues.

At one of the first ordinations of women, women were spat at.
Let's forgive child abusers - no let's not.
OK for the gays to wear the collars, make the tea etc, but not get married -ffs change gay for black and see how that sits.

The OP asked about Christianity, the pp replied wrt Christianity. I'm sorry your experience of the church has been so poor, mine hasn't, nor my christian friends.
I wrote 'perceived' as opposed to 'experienced' btw.

ime the church has been a lifeline for many isolated and vulnerable people to be part of a network of support. Good people do good works , conversely people with nefarious intent in all walks of life will find a way to carry out their purpose.

I watched a documentary about the 7/7 London bombings, an Anglican vicar had lost her daughter to them and was recounting the kindness of a taxi driver who realised she couldn't face the tube or train and drove her all the way to Reading, gratis, leaving her with words to the effect that 'please remember there are more good people out there than bad.'

Gosh I’m a Catholic and never realised the fish on Friday rule had been reinstated in 2011!

I'm not religious, but I used to work in a religious school, and I've never heard of anyone completely fasting for Lent. My understanding is that you either give up something that is important enough to you to be a real sacrifice or you promise to do something you would not normally do. I thought only Muslims, Baha'is and people on some kinds of extreme diets did full-on fasting.

@aliceinawonderland - you can eat duck or goose on a Friday - Henry VIII reclassified them as fish, for the purposes of Lent fasting!

LOL

I wonder how many Hail Marys you will have to do at your next confession?

only in England! https://fsspx.uk/en/matters-arising-must-eat-fish-fridays-35645 and seemingly its not and never has been "you must eat fish" but "you must not eat meat" Vegans and veggies have to give up something else

And you think that church attendance dropping through the 20th and 21st centuries is because Christians stopped fasting in the 5th/6th centuries?

haha. Not sure what CofE DH will say when I tell him that our regular Friday night Chinese takeaway is now verboten!!

It's funny how fish is seen as fasting when fish is now so much more expensive than meat!

I see the Tablet magazine is running a webinar on this, in case the thread isn't enough for anyone.

shop.thetablet.co.uk/products/fasting-and-self-denial-tablet-lenten-webinars-part-2

Where did I say that?