to wonder why Lent fasting has become so diluted?

[Wonderingwhyyy]

I was talking to a Christian who told me she fasts the traditional way in Lent. No food or water from sunrise to sunset. She was the first I had met who actually abstains from food and drink for a significant period of time.

Other Christians I know choose to give up one food e.g. chocolate, wine, tea, coffee. One Christian told me she gave up Facebook for Lent.

The Christian who said she fasted the traditional way told me she gained many benefits such as spiritual closeness to God, self discipline, greater self control.

It did make sense. Giving up Facebook doesn't seem likely to bring many benefits although may it did for that one person.

I wonder why it became diluted and whether Christianity has lost its followers by allowing most things it did not used to.

Just read on Wiki that the Filet-o-Fish burger was introduced by McDonalds to accommodate Friday-fasting Catholics.

My family certainly never ate meat on a Friday as I was growing up - always fish. But we had chips with the fish, something I disapproved of as a child because I thought chips were irreligious. 😂

it depends on the Christian tradition some churches believe that only if it is specifically either commanded or forbidden in the Bible is it a requirement.
Somethings that some churches celebrate or remember are traditions rather than biblical
There is no commandment in the Bible to celebrate Christ's birth, or Easter or Lent or Advent or pentecost These events are recorded but not as a commandment to be kept

( The word Easter doesn't appear in the Bible and where it does in a few translations it should say Passover)

The Death of Christ was to be commemorated in the breaking of bread and drinking wine known depending on traditio as Mass Eucharist, the Lord's Supper or The breaking of bread as instigated by jesus according to the Bible rather than Easter whcih in reality is just a replacement of Passover

New International Version
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. Colossians 2v16
so if you keep Lent ( or whatever other Christian festival feast or fast you like) you do so towards God if you consider all the days as being God given and none special you do so to God also
So whether you keep Lent or not does not make you a better or worse Christian it is about your relationship with God

Ah, here come the pseudo scientists! Joy.

But you’re not just mentioning are you @Wonderingwhyyy?y You’re following up with in-depth historical research from original ancient texts aren’t you?

Aww @RhaenysRocksforget your cute little theology and history qualifications, bless you, someone has had “a quick google” 🙄

Honestly!

Early spring in Europe is a time when there is not much food about but farmers are very busy planting food for the rest of the year. So a religious reason for not eating richly was partly due to not being much about but people needed to eat something to get jobs done in often cold weather. Monks were focused on religion they had lay brothers for the practical stuff so monks could fast.

In the middle east Muslims would have slept in the heat of the day and feasted in the cooler night so a more severe fast for Ramadan makes sense in that location.

Your friend laughed at another person's decision around how to practice Lent because it wasn't hardcore enough in her mind? How very unpleasant.

I'm not sure this period of fasting is providing quite the opportunity for Christian reflection she thinks it is.

They might fast that way, but it is not “traditional”. The tradition is to abstain from meat, dairy, luxury foods and certain celebrations, and there are some changes to worship (generally the Gloria is omitted, for example). In the west, fish has always been permitted, though some eastern churches go fully vegetarian or even vegan. Eating at normal times during the day, but with this more limited diet, is what constitutes a Lenten fast.

Fun fact: it was also permitted to eat otters, because the flesh tastes so fishy, they counted as fish rather than meat!

I have many Christian family and friends - Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Methodists and Baptists, including clergy of multiple denominations. I've never heard of anyone fasting by refusing all food and drink from sunrise to sunset during Lent.

The only Lenten fasting I've been aware of anyone actually undertaking was from Catholic friends on Good Friday. It involved only eating one main meal and two snacks/light meals, and that seems to have been the approach for a couple of centuries. Around the 10th century the Catholic practice was to take only one meal each day when fasting, usually around 3pm. By the 14th century that meal had moved to noon and a small evening snack or 'collation' was allowed. By the early 19th century a morning snack was allowed too.

As well as fasting during Lent there is also the separate custom of abstaining from certain foods, in particular meat, on certain days. This is 'abstinence', and strictly speaking it is distinct from fasting which is more focused on the quantity of food

So, what 'tradition' should we be following?

Exactly @MrsEverest

Try reading (and I mean READING books about, not Googling) the history of the church. There have been multiple divisions, going back to the fourth century - notable ones to look for are the splits arising from the Councils of Chalcedon and Ephesus, the ‘Great Schism’ of 1054, the Protestant Reformation, the English Reformation, and the subsequent splits within individual protestant and anglican churches. In each case, you get a bifurcation, so it’s not a case of modern churches having split from ancient ones, but rather that each split results in two new different churches. In most cases, both claim they are preserving the correct traditions, of course!

Shrove Tuesday was a time for using up the last eggs, milk and flour before the fast - hence pancakes. So presumably people did fast - but I think this was a long time ago. Nowadays many people just give up one thing such as alcohol or eggs.

Most Christians just pick and choose the bits they like and ignore the inconvenient stuff. Its not really a religion as such anymore - more a lifestyle. Just look at Donald Trump and his "prayer circle". Utter hypocrites.

The only Lenten fasting I've been aware of anyone actually undertaking was from Catholic friends on Good Friday. It involved only eating one main meal and two snacks/light meals, and that seems to have been the approach for a couple of centuries.

@CasperGutman Is this actually fasting? Having a meal with two snacks/light meals? Sounds like the usual three meals a day.

Irish catholics definitely don't fast as you described. This sounds like Ramadan. Christian is a really broad term though, includes so many different churches. There are 100s easily.

Interestingly a few posters have mentioned being aware of some Christians fasting this way.

It does seem to be quite broad though with some considering fasting to be three meals a day.

Some Christians may fast as you describe… but from my experience (I was a practicing Christian for many years and have known literally thousands of Christians over that period), none have fasted in the way your friend has, or anything close.

Also, the practice you describe isn’t “traditional” and isn’t even close to the practice of devout adherents to Lenten rules in more religious times. At most, it’s an extreme niche practice followed by very few people.

Also, I wonder is your friend of Nigerian origin? This feels like a practice that may have developed amongst the Christian communities there in relatively recent times to demonstrate equivalence in devotion with the Muslim communities they are in particularly fierce “competition” with.

I sense the church there is very radical and extreme, and not especially moored to the historical traditions of the church, and so more inclined to develop their own thought and practices, which can quickly grow over the course of a generation or so into a tradition.

Some people “consider fasting to be three meals a day” because that’s the official catholic stance now. Two of the meals must be small though. Haven’t you even googled anything op? Pretty poor form for someone so used to primary source research.

Is your friend a Coptic Christian op? I don’t think you’ve answered that either.

They’re not, neither for Lent not lentils!

It’s a fringe thing that it’s based in historical tradition, and I’d wager to be a recent adaption by some Christians in parts of the world where Islam is a major force.

The three strands of early Christianity, Eastern orthodox, Western, and Oriental orthodox, all grew and flourished in the Roman empire. There was a lot of discussion and debate about absolutely everything. The very culturally rich and influential oriental tradition was disrupted and scattered by the Islamic invasions, but Coptic Christian communities survived across northern Africa, preserving a lot of practice and tradition. The fact that those of us whose practice has Western or Eastern roots have not heard of something does not mean that it hasn't been around in Christianity since the 3rd or 4th century, or before. The really new thing, that none of those early Christians would have accepted, is the 'Sola Scriptura' notion associated with European protestantism .

Patrick, Romano-British, Latin speaking, approximately contemporary with Augustine of Hippo (and it is tantalising to wonder whether either of them had heard of the other) spoke of fasting in his Confessio, but seems to have been referring to abstaining from sleep as well as from food. See 16/17 here confessio.ie/etexts/confessio_english#01

If you make the pilgrimage to Station Island on Lough Derg in Donegal, you practice a three-day fast with limitless hot or cold water (salt and pepper allowed), one meal of dry bread or oatcakes with black tea or coffee per day, and one night of no sleep at all. Also no shoes throughout.

The only time in my life I've ever hallucinated.

You say "Christian" but I assume it is one of the more evangelical sects.

I never heard of anyone fasting fully for Lent, of any denomination, in my life.

We have learned that the friend is an African Christian, hence the speculation about Coptic practice in the earliest Christian centuries. I also wonder whether the fasting regimes in Christian communities absorbed into Islam from the 7th century on might have helped form Islamic Ramadan traditions.

no they didn't fast as in "not eat or drink" They consumed the less choice plainer foods.