To go abroad when working from home?

[StreakOfTheWeek]

If I went to Italy or France or Spain or wherever... and logged in and did my work - would this be wrong?
I work 8-2 Mon - Thurs normally
Never have to go into office, except for 4 meetings a year.

And I would work as usual, and thought I could then spend the afternoons exploring and taking it all in.

There's nothing wrong with my idea, is there??

I am absolutely not a techie person, but would using a VPN solve these security/data issues? Or some of them?

Feel free to laugh in my face if that’s a ludicrous comment.

Im sure there’s lots of advice out there for people wanting to be digital nomads.

I'm not allowed to do this due to security (civil service) but I know some organisations that allow it for short periods of time.

Check with your work's security team (don't just assume it's OK!).

If you're actually working and getting things done, why shouldn't you, as long as it's allowed by your organisation?

@StreakOfTheWeek there are other things at play rather than whether or not you are getting on with your work/whether your employer trusts you.
e.g.

1. if you work abroad for more than a certain amount of time then a decision has to be made as to where you pay tax and there may or not be special rules depending on whether for example uk has some arrangement with the country. Obviously not for a short holiday!
2. the country you work in may not allow visitors to work without a specific visa - hence the rise of what are often called ‘digital nomad visas’
3. if your employer’s liability insurance covers you (insurance generally could be a minefield)
4. some jobs it may be a hard no, if data movement is involved (due to GDPR and where data is stored/different laws etc)

many employers have a ‘work from anywhere’ policy that allows periods of working abroad but usually they state that the employee is responsible for ensuring that their destination allows it.

I’ve done it for a couple of weeks, with permission.

I do this all the time but I don’t make a secret of it. Have done it for years. The rise in digital nomads means that you can hire good co-working office spaces all over the world relatively cheaply. I booked a co-working space for a week in Ibiza last summer for around €100. Also found some really cheap places in southern Spain. I prefer to work in an office space when on holiday so I don’t have to listen to the kids screaming in the Villa pool and get distracted.

What you have to bear in in OP (I know from experience :) ) is ensure that if you have Teams meetings etc that your computer clock is showing UK time rather than European mainland time.

I repeat. Don't tell anyone. They won't allow it then if you do it it will be wrong. Just do it.

As the different responses to your thread have revealed, you need to check with your employer. Where I work, it's allowable in exceptional circumstances only and we need prior approval. There are certain tasks/systems we're not allowed to access from overseas.

There’s cyber security issues. We had a meeting recently and only very senior staff could get authorised and they still weren’t keen for that.
You could go away in uk?

Get a VPN.

It's not better. But UK companies IT security is set up for the UK internet.

UK companies data protection policies are based on UK laws and UK internet and UK processing. Different things apply abroad.

I had to spend a lot of time making sure our operational processes were still in line with GDPR when Brexit happened. We have to pay attention to how things change in the EU and the rest of the world because our arm of the business is here but the umbrella company is international.

It's not as simple as whether you can logon to the internet somewhere. There is legislation and regulations to comply with, depending on your sector and what data you handle.

You could, you know, ask them.

It definitely depends on your employer. In 2023 I met two French guys who had moved to Spain and had been working there remotely since Covid and their employer didn’t know. Their company was based out of Paris

Seek permission from work, ensure you don’t exceed the number of days allowed and ensure you follow all company policies the same as you would WFH in the UK, including having childcare abroad if required. Plenty of people do it of their contracts allow it.

The naivety and ignorance is obvious.

Most employers will know exactly where their systems are being being accessed from at all times. If you don't understand this, your advice to the OP is worthless.

Many employers will have strict policies around where in the world data can be accessed from, and via which types of networks, due to how transmitted data is intercepted in some countries.

Never mind any of the other issues they may have with where their employees are when carrying out company business.

Not allowed phone or laptop out of UK without explicit permission. We just had a cyber security thing and aren’t allowed to charge up in random places especially wireless pads that are often in places (juice jacking is a big threat). I’d have a chat and see what they say.

Yes, it's a potential tax issue, as well as a data liability and safety issue. If you only want to be away for a few days, why not just book annual leave?

My company is fine with it but we would need to tell them.

A) people aren't comparing the security of UK vs France, they're comparing the security of your PRIVATE home network, with log on details only known to you, vs whatever SHARED network you'd be accessing in your hotel/air bnb. The country is irrelevant, its like saying working in Costa is less secure than working from your own house

B) it doesn't matter whether it is or not, the only thing that matters is if your employer thinks so. Why are you arguing with randoms on mn about whether it's OK to do? The only person you need to ask is your employer- if they are happy with it its fine, if they aren't it isn't.

I live in Germany.

I can do this for - potentially - up to six months in one year. I need to fill out an A1 form before going each time to confirm my company is still responsible for my social security contributions in my country of residence. The company needs an address for me in my temporary country and the dates I will be there.

As Covid hit, they expanded our accident insurance to cover working outside of the office, so I‘m automatically covered there.

I do this to regularly spend a week at a time in the UK throughout the year.

Depends on your employer. You can only ask. Mine allow it, but as others have said, only short term due to tax implications.

VPNs can solve some of the issues but some countries restrict their use (such as Egypt, UAE, Myanmar) and some countries it is completely illegal (China, Iran, Turkey etc).

Post Brexit unless your employer has a French base you would not be able to do this legally from France without going through some hoops.
Your employer would have to follow French labour laws.

What you are talking about is maybe four weeks or 28 days at most, so even if all your remaining holidays are out of the UK, doubt if you would ever get to 90 days where there could be tax implications.

However, you should seek your employer's agreement. And depending on your employer, what you would do or costs you would lose if there was a reason to come to the office at short notice.

Did you not notice that she's planning to have afternoons off to explore? And some businesses don't routinely monitor whether people are at their computers, actually working. Admittedly more do since it became clear that productivity was dropping, but still a lot rely on trust.

FFS

I've talked about this before. I worked for decades for a large corporate everyone has heard of. We were at the front for homeworking and actually had a home working policy with hot desking arrangements from 1999. We always had, and they continue to have, strict rules on home workplaces, equipment, insurance, safety etc.

Our policy was always from day 1 that this was not allowed because to do this, said company would have to be fully conversant in taxation, H&S, law etc. for each and every country that an employee would wish to work from. They had a duty of care to ensure they were not breaking any laws of the country or putting the employee in an unsafe situation or causing tax or immigration issues.

As a result of that, it was a blanket no unless the employee was one that travelled on business to said countries and presumably was covered by visas and company insurance for the same. Jane in admin or even Jane's manager's manager's manager absolutely could not decide to go to their apartment in Turkey, Gite in France or chalet in Switzerland for the summer and log on there.

I'm still shocked at how many companies let their staff work from home using a laptop at the kitchen table. It would be a very foolish employee that booked a holiday, didn't tell anyone and disappeared abroad for a month with their work laptop.