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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we are heading into a pensions disaster

605 replies

She11y · 25/03/2025 20:03

I asked ChatGPT what the median pension savings were for someone in their mid 40s and I got the below reply:

Ages 35 to 44: The median pension pot is approximately £30,600.
• Ages 45 to 54: The median pension pot increases to about £81,200.

This website has a similarly sobering statistic - average pension pot for 50-59 is £96k.

https://www.nutsaboutmoney.com/pensions/average-pension-pot-uk

These are averages and the number will be brought down by some people who have zero pension savings but it's still a very low amount.

How are people going to survive retirement. There aren't many jobs for people the wrong side of 50z

What's the average pension pot? (UK by age) - Nuts About Money

Not sure you are saving enough into your pension? Here’s the average pension pot and how much you really need to retire.

https://www.nutsaboutmoney.com/pensions/average-pension-pot-uk

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
taxguru · 26/03/2025 16:07

TizerorFizz · 26/03/2025 16:00

@countingthedays945 People are saying this awful student debt stops them saving for a pension and another poster says they stumped up £27,000 fees and all living expenses (which can be £12,000 pa easily) so dc can make pension contributions. So firstly only the rich do this and secondly all employees must make pension contributions. Only the self employed have options.

Employees in the private sector still have the right to "opt out" of workplace pensions. They're not compulsory by law. I don't know whether public sector pensions have the same rules or whether a PS employee can opt out of their PS pension scheme too?

Self employed don't benefit from "employer" contributions - they have to bear the entire contribution themselves.

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 26/03/2025 16:08

taxguru · 26/03/2025 16:07

Employees in the private sector still have the right to "opt out" of workplace pensions. They're not compulsory by law. I don't know whether public sector pensions have the same rules or whether a PS employee can opt out of their PS pension scheme too?

Self employed don't benefit from "employer" contributions - they have to bear the entire contribution themselves.

Edited

Public sector employees can opt out too.

TizerorFizz · 26/03/2025 16:15

Ok so employees must be offered a pension. Only idiots don’t pay as the government gives tax relief contributions - up to a certain amount. Self employed is a different ball game.

Sunnnybunny72 · 26/03/2025 16:19

Bobbybobbins · 25/03/2025 21:04

Public sector pensions (with high contributions) are one of the reasons people carry on working in thankless, relatively poorly paid public sector roles. There are already recruiting issues in nursing and teaching. Take the pension away and what do some of you propose instead to try to encourage people to teach your children or look after you in hospital?

This. I’m NHS and out at 55 (after 36 years) next year. The pension is the only thing that’s kept me there. Many many others like me.

OliphantJones · 26/03/2025 16:30

A lot of NHS workers aren’t aware of the fact that they were contracted out of paying full NI contributions for years and so have to work/contribute longer than 35 years to get the full state pension.

hattie43 · 26/03/2025 16:31

As has been said before the state pension is only part of the story . Those who haven’t saved anything and have no assets will have to be completely funded by the state . Rent , council tax , care home if needed , any other benefits available . It is going to be a massive unaffordable burden for younger people to afford through their NI contributions. It will be a shit show .

TheCastleDoesNotReply · 26/03/2025 16:35

taxguru · 26/03/2025 16:05

Fair comments except for the "deferred" tax on pensions. Lots of people are saving up to 62% tax on their pension contributions if they're higher rate taxpayers and in the £100-£125k tax band. If they draw down their pensions at 20% basic rate, they've massively benefitted from tax savings. If they draw pensions in the years before state retirement age, some of their pensions will be tax free under the personal allowance. Your point is only really valid for people who are basic rate taxpayers putting money in and basic rate taxpayers when they draw it out again. (And of course, there's no capital gains tax on the increase in value of the underlying investments/assets which is another tax break).

I did state there were still some tax advantages to pensions, such as paying no NI on the contributions and this not being charged to pension-aged people on withdrawal, plus the tax free lump sum. It’s possible, of course, but rather rare I would think, that anybody deferring 62% tax on contribution would be withdrawing all their money at basic rate tax.

People forget that these tax advantages were put in place for very good reason: to encourage people to save for retirement. It’s meant to be an arrangement that provides tax advantages, as an incentive to save. Why else would anybody lock their money into a product where they cannot access it for decades? The problem is uncertainty over the actually being any tax advantage remaining by the time the money is withdrawn because successive governments keep moving the goalposts. It destroys all trust in the system. The government are creating a huge risk for which it is no longer clear that the potentially higher returns provided by their tax incentives will compensate, so they are actively undermining the system. People take the tax rate risk in terms of the fact general taxation rates may change before withdrawal (although it’s clear that at this point this is not just uncertainty, rather a highly probable downside for current pension investors given the likely trajectory of income tax rates) but if the other rules around LTAs, tax free lump sum, allowable retirement age (to access your own money!), NI pensioner exemption, inheritance tax rules keep being changed then how can a reasonable person say “here’s my money, I’ll just take a punt and hope you don’t screw me over”? It’s turning long-term investment planning into something more akin to a casino game if the other party to the contract arbitrarily changes the rules on a regular basis and you have no right to withdraw your funds when they change the terms. This continued manipulation of the system, always of course for the government to try to get its hands on more of people’s life savings, is destroying trust in the system and the perceived incentive that the beneficial tax rules are meant to provide because these may well not apply and you have mo way to cancel the contract and retrieve your money when they change the terms.

People are already taking investment risk, interest rate risk, currency risk, income tax rate risk with these investments. I think the endless raids on top of that are a step too far for many; all trust in the integrity of the system has been eroded. The final nail in the coffin would be if they tried to mess about with the relief at the point of contribution. At that point I think the industry would become obsolete. I also suspect that’s why they’re now insinutating that they should attack ISAs: rather than repair what’s wrong with the pension system the cynical part of me thinks that they’re trying to engineer a way to ensure there’s no realistic alternative by restricting ISAs (via which this tax rate risk at least can be removed).

It seems very counterproductive to discourage responsible and prudent behaviour in this way if the hope is to get more people to save and become self-sufficient in retirement, which is why numerous independent reports on the topic for several years now have told the government of the day consistently that they need to just leave the system alone if they want to encourage pension saving. Sadly - as ever, it seems - we have a government which insists on ignoring very sensible economic advice.

Spodemultiuser · 26/03/2025 16:42

SinkToTheBottomWithYou · 26/03/2025 12:48

DH and I are doing things very similarly. If you don’t mind me asking: what are your thoughts on private pension pots potentially being taxed in the future and also the fact that they can’t be taken before a certain age (which can change)?

We are planning to stop saving into a pension but do it into savings accounts / other investments. Less tax efficient but less chances of govt decisions affecting us. But maybe that doesn’t make sense.

This is what we have done.
To spread the risk.
If you have private pensions it’s always something to be aware of, we don’t have the luxury of public pension guarantees.

TheCastleDoesNotReply · 26/03/2025 16:42

TizerorFizz · 26/03/2025 16:00

@countingthedays945 People are saying this awful student debt stops them saving for a pension and another poster says they stumped up £27,000 fees and all living expenses (which can be £12,000 pa easily) so dc can make pension contributions. So firstly only the rich do this and secondly all employees must make pension contributions. Only the self employed have options.

Auto-enrolment doesn’t force you to stay in the scheme! You can opt out at any point. It’s exactly what the name implies: you are automatically enrolled. You can then decide to withdraw yourself again straight away. Why do you think it is compulsory?

Hankunamatata · 26/03/2025 16:45

I think people realise how much they need in their pension pot but for many people it's an unrealistic figure to save over a life time

Hankunamatata · 26/03/2025 16:47

MichaelandKirk · 25/03/2025 20:33

100% we need to look at the public sector pensions.

Why? They aren't that amazing anymore and paid less than private sector!

Pandersmum · 26/03/2025 16:47

CantWatchRejection · 25/03/2025 22:43

I am in my mid-50s, and have worked for 30 years and am lucky enough to have a healthy NHS pension pot. I hope to work at least till my early 60s. I don’t feel guilty about my pension. I have done 56 hour shifts in the 90s, always worked FT and not taken a day off sick for 27 years and counting, despite having truly challenging times. I have gone above and beyond for people and still mostly enjoy my job.

My pension will be supporting both of us though. My husband‘s private pension is absolutely tiny: shockingly so.

I bet your husband also worked really hard!

Spodemultiuser · 26/03/2025 16:47

Badbadbunny · 26/03/2025 14:46

It's virtually impossible to take away pensions that have been part of an employment contract for decades, so I think we have to accept paying for the gold plated ones and also the reduced silver plated ones, for which contributions have been being made in past decades.

The only real answer is to tax the pension payments. I.e. reduce the tax free lump sum, or at least impose limits on it, and either increase the rate of income tax or impose NIC on all income so that it's payable on pensions as well as wages.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

there were changes made between those gold plated and silver plated schemes

There could just as easily be changes made again. I suspect there will have to be at some point in the not too distant future.

Pandersmum · 26/03/2025 16:48

Hankunamatata · 26/03/2025 16:47

Why? They aren't that amazing anymore and paid less than private sector!

That is a huge myth. That public sector roles pay significantly less than private sector roles.

ThymeScent · 26/03/2025 16:50

Hankunamatata · 26/03/2025 16:45

I think people realise how much they need in their pension pot but for many people it's an unrealistic figure to save over a life time

Yes but that means that pensions are unaffordable now for the number of years they are likely to be needed. So -who pays?

Spodemultiuser · 26/03/2025 16:51

Hankunamatata · 26/03/2025 16:47

Why? They aren't that amazing anymore and paid less than private sector!

They are not paid less than private sector. There is no guaranteed income.
Employers don’t pay in anywhere near as much. Private averages about 3% whilst public 24-30%.
If the economy is in free fall tax payers money still guarantees a public sector pension.

These issues aren’t sustainable

ThymeScent · 26/03/2025 16:53

I know three women in their early 60/s (so pre state pension age) who are playing the system by being on benefits and ‘justifying’ it on the basis that they ‘would have been on state pension by now’

Spodemultiuser · 26/03/2025 16:54

ThymeScent · 26/03/2025 16:50

Yes but that means that pensions are unaffordable now for the number of years they are likely to be needed. So -who pays?

People will simply have to be more frugal in their pension years if they only have a small private pension pot.
For those who don’t get the full state pension and don’t have any ££assets or a private pension they will have to tap into benefits, as they do now.

Spodemultiuser · 26/03/2025 16:59

SparrowsEatUpToHalfTheirBodyWeightADay · 26/03/2025 08:55

I fear ours will be whatever we will be able to brew at home on cheap 😂

We make an amazing blackberry brandy that blows your socks off.
We don’t even buy the blackberries as there’s so many growing wild 😁

Ive also become quite adept at Mead 😋
Pre planning for retirement is crucial 🤣🤣

SparrowsEatUpToHalfTheirBodyWeightADay · 26/03/2025 17:04

Spodemultiuser · 26/03/2025 16:59

We make an amazing blackberry brandy that blows your socks off.
We don’t even buy the blackberries as there’s so many growing wild 😁

Ive also become quite adept at Mead 😋
Pre planning for retirement is crucial 🤣🤣

5* planning and prep!
I am planning on beer brewing next year when I have more space. I am a lager (no, not stela or Carlsberg!) woman so shouldn't be too much fuff😁

Spodemultiuser · 26/03/2025 17:08

SparrowsEatUpToHalfTheirBodyWeightADay · 26/03/2025 17:04

5* planning and prep!
I am planning on beer brewing next year when I have more space. I am a lager (no, not stela or Carlsberg!) woman so shouldn't be too much fuff😁

Yes I’d like to give beer brewing a go.
Its on the list 🍺

Recycledblonde · 26/03/2025 17:15

Userlosername · 25/03/2025 21:22

Contribution rates are tiny for public sector pensions considering the benefits. The employer contribution is equivalent to at least 25% to 30% of salary. You would never get that in the private sector

I work in the NHS on a band 7 salary and I pay 9% of my salary and the employer contribution is 19%. I do think that’s good but it’s no where near 25-30% of my salary.

TizerorFizz · 26/03/2025 17:19

If the pension contributions are added into state salaries, they are competitive. No one ever does it though. To get pay rises, pension sacrifice could be offered. Less government %, more pay increase. An actuary would need to crunch the numbers to effect savings.

Thisiswhathings · 26/03/2025 17:34

TizerorFizz · 26/03/2025 17:19

If the pension contributions are added into state salaries, they are competitive. No one ever does it though. To get pay rises, pension sacrifice could be offered. Less government %, more pay increase. An actuary would need to crunch the numbers to effect savings.

Depends what sector, some will still be behind private sector even if pensions are added on .

SparrowsEatUpToHalfTheirBodyWeightADay · 26/03/2025 17:35

Spodemultiuser · 26/03/2025 17:08

Yes I’d like to give beer brewing a go.
Its on the list 🍺

You will accident end up with local bar instead of retirement 😂