For thinking that 'narc abuse ' is an acceptable term?

[atmywitsend1989]

My ex displayed heavy signs of narcissism. Not only was he mildly physically abusive.. he was so self centered. Used to leave me with the kids for months at a time with very little contact with me, and would show up home abruptly and expected me to know. I had to make a big meal exactly to his liking because his mum made it the same way (despite him never communicating with me on when he'd come home, absolutely 0 calls) and I had to polish his shoes and iron his clothes ect or I'd be screamed at or hit. He liked to call himself a prophet and expected everything done for him. He isolated me physically and mentally from others

He was apparently tested for an unrelated disorder in his youth according to him because even his old fashioned / traditional parents had thought that something was wrong.. although they did spoil and coddle him themselves. In his words- 'the doctor told me that I was too intelligent to have it.' I seriously doubted his story but never question it. He lied about his height and cheating on young girls.. He used to text them while coming home after his month long breaks. He showered the kids with affection but snapped easily. They didn't see him consistently and after we split and they only saw him yearly initially. Now, they both never see him and refuse online contact with him. Both dislike him although son has picked up his traits. Ex doesn't pay child support although I've told him that I can support myself and my kids

I feel like I could classify his behaviour as narcissistic abuse. But I've viewed support group sources online as I can't attend any in person groups and I've been told that it's an ableist term. I am guessing that the people in these spaces are much younger, as in in their early 20s or 20s because I've never heard this before. Surely that counts as a narcissistic exhusband and I don't see why I should have to say abusive rather than narcissistic and abusive when both can be true.

What difference does it make?

I don't exclusively use 'narcissistic abuse' but I just don't see why it warrants victim blaming and being called ableist. Isn't it just another way to protect the feelings of abusive men.

If a support group has rules on how its members express themselves, it is probably not a good support group. Gently explaining the meaning of a word that has been misunderstood is not the same as being dogmatic about what words are used.

Is there some confusion about the term ableist. I thought that referred to physically fit people undermining those who are less able.

Are the people on the forum using it to describe people who enable abusers, which is very much victim blaming?

'Is there some confusion about the term ableist. I thought that referred to physically fit people undermining those who are less able.'

This is what I thought too at first, physically less able people and perhaps autistic people being discriminated against rather than narcissists who happen to abuse but maybe it's just something universal that I haven't been aware of, judging by the YABU votes 😬 That being said if it's frowned upon and if the definition of ableism has changed then I also have no issue with stopping myself from calling my exhusband a narcissist.. I understand that 'abusive' also works

Just checked

'Ableism is the discrimination of and social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that typical abilities are superior. At its heart, ableism is rooted in the assumption that disabled people require 'fixing' and defines people by their disability.'

The definition seems to be the same

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a diagnosed mental health condition. I don't see anything wrong with what you said but the issue at the group may be that the term suggests all people who abuse have a mental health condition and/or all people diagnosed Narcasist will abuse. I suppose you could say it's stigmatising mental health by linking it to abuse and/or self diagnosing abusers with a mental health condition rather than just seeing them as bad people who are in control of their actions.

I understand that not all people with that disorder abuse but abuse by people with stronger narcissistic traits than most does appear to present differently though..

Cluster B personality disorders, including NPD, absolutely require fixing and untreated will ruin the lives not just of the affected person but of everyone around them.

A personality disorder is nothing like a neurodivergence which is a difference of brain and comes with many strengths as well as some weaknesses.

There are no strengths to a personality disorder.

OP, saying that "the doctor said I didn't have it because..." is common in people who have been diagnosed with PDs, either due to stigma or unwillingness to accept the diagnosis. High intelligence is absolutely not a bar to having a PD, in fact high IQ can make it harder to treat as many people with PD have not fully accepted they are in need of treatment and a person with high intelligence might be better able to evade treatment.

I have a family member with BPD, I am not sure if she is diagnosed as sometimes she says she is and at other times she says she made that up because she was "anxious". She is extremely intelligent and has a range of tactics to avoid treatment for BPD whilst continuing to get the treatment she wants, including doctor hopping, faking illness, self-harming, lying to medical professionals and buying drugs on the dark web and using them to induce symptoms. I can recognise she is ill and want her to get better but also have to acknowledge that she is very, very dangerous in her current state and extremely unpredictable and volatile. You never know when the switch will flip and when that happens she will do anything to get revenge as she sees it. She is a master of manipulation and has no hesitation in lying to the police, calling someone's employer, making malicious reports to social services, getting in touch with someone's ex partner and feeding them stories, or using any other method to punish someone she is angry at.

I don't care what her diagnosis is but I will absolutely say that she is not the innocent victim she likes to portray herself as.

This really does ring a bell. I've never been able to relate to a lot of spousal abuse stories as much as the ones where the victim calls their abuser a 'narcissistic abuser', but I thought I was going insane for a moment. He used to recall the story with the psychologist with a smirk on his face as ifnhe was proud and seriously thought there was nothing wrong with him.. Just as he used to call himself a prophet. I know someone with bipolar (so not bpd as far as I know) who has delusions but my ex husband's type of egotistical delusion really seemed different to what bipolar people describe

I'm so sorry about your family member. Surely she should be sectioned if it's that bad but the state of mental health care is terrible.. she 100% sounds like an abuser

She is always trying to get herself sectioned. They always discharge her within 24 hrs because she's not actually crazy, and long term residential care is very unhelpful for BPD. She wants to be sectioned because she enjoys being surrounded by people who have to look after her and give her sympathy, people that can't abandon her or lose their temper with her. She also likes to get checked into Women's Refuges for the same reason, she gets an endless supply of tea and sympathy. It just increases the dependency on others and lack of agency she has.

That sounds terrible. At this point how are you even supposed to help someone like that

It's almost impossible. She's very convinced that it's everyone else who is the problem and there is nothing wrong with her. If you try to tell her that it's her bad choices which is leading to her having a miserable life, she thinks you are attacking her. You cannot help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

I'm sure you saw similar traits in your ex, being a constant victim and complaining about how awful everything was but unwilling to see that he, himself, was the root cause of the problem.