To think the UK is in terminal decline

[ThisOchreBiscuit]

Jobs Civil service to cut thousands of jobs

Nothing positive is happening in this country. It’s just cuts, cuts and tax increases but these arent doing anything to scratch the surface.

The whole country is being propelled up by a massive Ponzi scheme: house prices and immigration. House prices make all home owners feel richer and immigration makes the GDP figures look better.

I suppose I shouldn’t complain as I am a child of immigrants. My parents came here in the 70s from India. They were virtually penniless but they have now been retired for 15 years, earning a state pension from 65 and still getting their final salary pension. They own their home in London and have thousands in savings. They were able to achieve this whilst working in low skilled factory jobs.

Now, professionals with university degrees would struggle to achieve their life style.

I think we are heading to a social mobility and quality of life that is closer to India and than the traditional western view, with wealth in the hands of a small number of landlords.

A has just purchased a completely nice family home near me for £500k and added a back and loft extension and turned it into a 6 bed HMO charging £800 per room.

They will make a 15% return on their £250k investment.

This is a disgusting comment!

I probably was bought up in what you’d define an “underclass” environment - single family, benefits, free school meals….I’ve done well for myself, got GCSEs, A Levels and a first class degree from a middle class uni….

Now earning more than my family combined, about to buy a home with my partner who works on a lower wage….without no family help.

Other male relatives in my family were born poor but they have worked in trades…

Class isn’t a determinant of how well a child can do, I know plenty of people who were born in MC families and work on minimum wage. Plus what if a child who came from an affluent family but has severe SEN needs which requires 24/7 care?

"Underclass" doesn't mean working class. It means feckless, criminal, no intention of working, etc etc. Sounds like you come from a hard working working class background. Nothing at all wrong with that. Most people do.

I thought "underclass" meant that you're only income was state benefits, unless you're retired.

Do you think it's sustainable to have a constant stream of random.people from oversras being put up in hotels before ushered into government funded permanent accommodation, many of them then bringing over extended family? Nonenkf whom have any skills, many including even basic language skills? Personally I'd say it wasn't..

🙄

The "employer" was the municipality... litter picking, street-sweeping, etc. The supervisors were city employees.

Me and DH were talking about this just last night. We don't think we will ever get to fully retire not able to save anywhere near enough for a decent retirement even though compared to many we have a high income (although we get thrashed again and again with both personal and corporation tax). We just came to the decision that instead of putting away for ourselves we just have to understand our old age will be crap and to invest as much as we can into our kids to give them as much of a headstart in adulthood as we can as we know it will be even worse for them. We've also resigned ourselves to the fact it's now probably too late for us to move to another country and start again although we do have qualifications that could transfer. We know our kids will probably have to leave us and move in order to improve their chances of a better life. The UK is an absolute dump now and I worry about my kids having to struggle in the future.

But if you check the figures, the number of asylum seekers (who are presumably who you mean as people from 'the backwards third world') in the past year was under 100,000. So that's not a million? Assuming we have a 'constant stream' of them, it would take 10 years before there were a million, let alone millions, plural.

The press are whipping up hatred without furnishing people with the actual facts.

I disagree. When I compare my quality of life to that of my mother at the same age mine is 100 times better, and she would agree. Example - My premature twins are finishing University this year, that would never have happened 50 years ago. They would have been lucky to survive, let alone thrive.

There is a huge negativity bias here. I feel very hopeful.

I've been wondering about this too.

Another thought is...prisoners. There are approximately 95,000 prisoners in the UK and each prison place costs around £51K per year. That adds up to nearly £5 billion per year, which is about 10% of what we spend on defence. I do wonder if somebody will decide that savings can be made by reintroducing the death penalty, in years to come.

It all feels rather dystopian.

@CanadianJohn yes that's correct it's really generous!

We have absolutely no chance when it comes to China, India and possibly Africa, if they ever have their day.

Just their attitude towards education and self development absolutely trumps ours

I do wonder if somebody will decide that savings can be made by reintroducing the death penalty, in years to come.

It would only save money if it was a quick
process eg a few months after their sentence. Instead it would take years with loads of legal challenges.

People should be paid for that, if it's an essential task. What you're describing sounds like workfare, which didn't go down well

But I would like to see some social contract between society and benefit claimants eg expectation of voluntary work for the "nice to have" stuff, or education to improve their prospects of getting paid employment

I definitely think the death penalty should be brought back and not just for murder. There are many chronic offenders that are constantly in and out of prison and who will never contribute anything to society.

They did, the Conservative Party lost the election. Unfortunately they left a trail of destruction and privatisation of public services behind them (or rather them and their mates took it with them - investment company ownership of care homes, nurseries, water, electricity etc - big buck shareholder payouts whilst our fees and charges go up)

Yes. I'm contemplating learning Mandarin and advising the younger generations in our family to do the same.

Basic language skills you say?

I agree 100%

Yes but 50 years ago they wouldn't have needed to go to University, they could have left school at 16 and got a good job.

The Tories didn't make the drastic changes that needed to happen. Sunak was just a puppet of the back-room "money men". Didn't do a single thing good for the country or our population - it was ALL about what was good for the background billionaires - the ones who pulled the strings to get him into power as the PM in the first place - remember he never won a leadership election - he got in power because the people behind the scenes leaned on prospective challengers not to stand against him!

Before him, Boris was just a baffoon. Truss got in because the members didn't want Sunak, etc etc. The only recent one who actually tried to do the best for the country was Teresa May but the MPs kept voting against her!

This is, in part, because of how each generation measures it's wealth. We all value things we see as being elusive. That happens in every generation, as the world changes. You see the things the previous generations have, that were the pinnacle of their achievement, and don't see the accoutrements of your own generation that are of equal but different value. We all do it, it's a life stage we only appreciate as we get to the last one

For me, tapping 60, I am wealthy because I don't fear going without food, clothing, as I did when I was a child and again when I first left home, and can see how to save money for basics, bills etc divesting myself of things like phone and TV contracts, online shopping, new anything. I have been in this situation for less than a decade, which is the norm for almost everyone I know of my age

For the young adults I used to teach they fear not owning houses, not being able to rent a house. House share, bedsits etc are no longer the first step to independence and those things I consider luxuries are how many keep in touch with the world around them, so they are, for them, essential. So many seem to look at previous generations and think we have always had what we world for 40+ years to achieve and they want it... right now. Or rather they measure their own lack against that

I imagine my grandparents were as bemused by my priorities, basic needs.

I don't believe it is harder for the youth of today than it was for me or any other previous generation. It's equally as hard but in very different ways because the world has moved on exponentially since the end of WWII.

Add to all of that the change in communication and the very different perspective on how we can and cannot talk to each other, what sensitivities we are obliged to consider at every turn, the seeming lack of critical thinking engendered by this, it's hardly surprising that a very definite divide has been grown by those who need it, as in divide and conquer.

I wholly appreciate that many will read this and hear a patronising voice, divorced from reality, with no understanding or empathy for younger generations

I'd just remind you that you have no understanding of the world I grew up in and do not hear my words in the way I say them

It's a generational divide that has always existed, time will give you a better understanding as it is absolutely guaranteed that your grandkids will think of you in pretty much the same way you view me, my generation... and they won't hear you when you try to explain either

But it's not the fault of today's young that the World has changed and degrees are now regarded as basic requirements for most half decent jobs! It's not the students who've driven the rise in university educations, it's the politicians - Blair's stupid 50% target, and employers ever increasing minimum requirements to "screen out" huge numbers of applicants for no real business reason in lots of cases - just to cut the numbers of applicants they have to sift through - a very lazy way of doing it.

So, again, young are suffering at the hands of older people as it's "older people" who've made those decisions. Obviously not all old people, but to the young, they just see yet another area where the old have screwed the young. The old didn't have to go to uni to get a good job, even if they did go, they weren't landed with £50k of debt, etc.

Funny joke, you're hilarious. When the only point you can pick on is the trials of typing on a phone keyboard you know you're out of steam.

I agree. It also keeps the unemployment levels down and turns the universities into businesses with a bums on seat rather than suitability and love of learning.

I suppose you could argue it opened it up to more people rather than a few but what a con for a lot and more debt