To think the UK is in terminal decline

[ThisOchreBiscuit]

Jobs Civil service to cut thousands of jobs

Nothing positive is happening in this country. It’s just cuts, cuts and tax increases but these arent doing anything to scratch the surface.

The whole country is being propelled up by a massive Ponzi scheme: house prices and immigration. House prices make all home owners feel richer and immigration makes the GDP figures look better.

I suppose I shouldn’t complain as I am a child of immigrants. My parents came here in the 70s from India. They were virtually penniless but they have now been retired for 15 years, earning a state pension from 65 and still getting their final salary pension. They own their home in London and have thousands in savings. They were able to achieve this whilst working in low skilled factory jobs.

Now, professionals with university degrees would struggle to achieve their life style.

I think we are heading to a social mobility and quality of life that is closer to India and than the traditional western view, with wealth in the hands of a small number of landlords.

A has just purchased a completely nice family home near me for £500k and added a back and loft extension and turned it into a 6 bed HMO charging £800 per room.

They will make a 15% return on their £250k investment.

This is just not my experience. A lot of the older generation retired at 55 or 60 years! It's true that people who are retired now saw unprecedented prosperity and not "because they worked harder." They simply did not. They benefitted from Thatcher selling everything off, RTB, gas , electric etc etc and being a part of a massive group that voted Tory en masse, protecting their generation and throwing all future prosperity away.

Civil service has always slashed jobs every few years. My DH worked in civil service for 20yrs – he went through at least three periods of heavy redundancies.

UK has massively declined over the last 5 years. I was born in the UK but moved to Switzerland 5 years ago. Trust me it's not like it everywhere. Every time I go home to the UK I can't believe how awful things are. The atmosphere has changed, everyone is miserable, complaining, fed up, desperate for change. Last time we visited my 4 year old asked why there is rubbish everywhere. It's also as if society has declined or as if people have given up. I took a public bus one day and the driver just pulled into a lay by and got out so he could have cigarette. Then there was the day that my train was delayed and I asked an employee at the station what was going on and she started effing and blinding about how they were all delayed.
Here in Switzerland you pay less tax. Everything works, its efficient- healthcare is incredible, public transport is on time, it's clean, no litter, no potholes, brilliant education, no antisocial behaviour or crime. If you are unemployed for any reason, as long as you have held a job for 2 years you are entitled to unemployment benefit capped at 10000chf per month for 18 months. It's a good, stable economy. When I first moved here I was shocked by how expensive it is but now compared to the UK it feels the same. My advice to any young person in the UK would be to move abroad if you can, because you cannot build wealth in the UK. Everything is working against you. But it is totally possible to do so by moving abroad. We have been able to save so much money in a relatively short space of time and we would never have been able to do that if we had not left.

My Dad is in his 60s and been retired for 10 years. Lives most of his retirement on the golf course and on fancy cruise ships. He had an average job and an average wage. With that he bought a suburban semi and brought up his 3 children along with my Mum who was SAHM. With one average salary we could afford the basics and have an annual holiday.

That just wouldn't be possible now. You'd need two average salaries to hope to get a mortgage out on a similar property, which would mean both parents working full time jobs. With cost of living theres little chance of building up the deposit either without the bank of mum and dad and with most of your salary going on rent. Plus exorbitant childcare costs.

The nuclear family is basically dead to younger working class people. It's just not affordable.

How does it progress and thrive when it's massively over populated?

@Sourdoughandjam what's that got to do with my question? I haven't said anything about over population but you are the one arguing for no dc or solo dc?

If you don't want any children fair enough but you then just have an overpopulation of old
people which is financially more expensive?

It has everything to do with it.

Seems pretty ludicrous that blue collar workers now in their sixties and seventies with just about one brain cell to rub together own significant assets in property, are able to buy new cars, have savings and a good pension, and can holiday multiple times per year while we chumps have to struggle to pay a mortgage on a house that we can barely afford but have degrees, decent jobs, skills aplenty.

That's an awful post. Those blue collar workers you clearly despise will have worked hard and done everything society asked of them at the time. Blue collar =/= thick.

It's not their fault things are harder for you. But since you're clearly so much cleverer and more skillful I'm sure you'll succeed eventually 🙄

@YourAmberScroller "blue collar workers now in their sixties and seventies with just about one brain cell to rub together"

the lack of respect for essential workers in your post is truly horrendous. They are the ones who keep essential services going. They are perfectly intelligent.

I really hate that people think like you.

@Sourdoughandjam so how does a society with no children and young people function?

If people in the UK stopped having babies tmw we would still be overpopulated @Sourdoughandjam?

Seems pretty ludicrous that blue collar workers now in their sixties and seventies with just about one brain cell to rub together own significant assets in property, are able to buy new cars, have savings and a good pension, and can holiday multiple times per year while we chumps have to struggle to pay a mortgage on a house that we can barely afford but have degrees, decent jobs, skills aplenty.

This is harsh and I don't agree that blue collar equals stupid but your post isn't wrong in that young people today cannot hope for that future. That's what has gone wrong.

I didn't say no young people or children. There's a big difference between slowly working to ensure population reduces over time and having no children.

Of course we would. Nothing is ever solved overnight.

@Sourdoughandjam

You said this

"Having no children or solo children isn't the bad thing it's seen to be for society. Quite the opposite."

Do you know what the UK birth rate is? The problem isn't too many dc...

Of course we would. Nothing is ever solved overnight.

@Sourdoughandjam So answer the question, how does a society with very few young people function?

There's a big difference between slowly working to ensure population reduces over time and having no children.

Do you understand the UK driver of population is not the birth rate?

@Sourdoughandjam How are you going to support the massive increase in the population over 65 years? Who's going to work? In 1972 13% of the population was over 65. In 2043 , it's projected to be 24%. We already have declining birth rates.

Honestly, it's these kinds of non thinking voters that have pushed us into the decline of the West. Brexit, Trump hardly a surprise when these are the gems brought in as a serious argument by a population who apparently had access to free education.

It's not just the UK it's all of Europe as a whole. Some famous businessman in the 90s predicted Europe would become the new third world against the emerging economies and he's being proven correct.

@TankFlyBossW4lk the non thinking is astounding!

Working class people have always been moaned at not to have kids if they cant afford them. So you cant whine about it now the reckoning has to be paid

There really isn’t much for today’s youngsters to be positive about. The era of growth and prosperity is over. Whether intentional or not the older generations have benefitted from factors beyond their own making and pulled up the drawbridge behind them.

Bullshit. Your 'older generations' gained their prosperity through their own collective work, rebuilding from the rubble of two world wars. Your own generation will benefit by inheriting from them.

Gen Z is set to be the wealthiest ever, in fact by some measures they already are (but don't feel it yet). I wish the whining generations would buck up and start fixing things instead of irritably waiting for someone to die and give them money.

I am 100% not a Brexit or Trump supporter so don't even go there. There are many, many ways that we can support an aging population and let's not forget that our aging population is an aging population because medical advances have meant we can keep going for longer. We can work longer, live independently longer so it isn't a like for like comparison to supporting previous generation of elderly people. We can disagree on this and I'm fine with that. There's no way we can continue with current birth rates - the planet can't sustain it. It really is that simple.

This isn't just about the UK though is it? It's about global population too.

Neoliberalism has totally destroyed the west.