To take DD to our GP about school not supporting her?

[theferry]

Apologies, this will be a long one and I’ll try to cover everything.

I don’t know if it makes a difference, but we’re in Scotland.

DD is 14. She’s been on the waiting list for an autism assessment for almost two years and god knows how much longer that will take. I fully believe that she is ND, as do her teachers. It was the school that referred her to CAMHS.

The school has been supportive of her and has various measure in place to help her, including having a room she can go to if she gets into a meltdown. She uses it quite a lot. However, when i spoke with her teacher on Monday, they are planning on withdrawing that support next year on the basis she will be doing her exams and needs to be in classes and they now believe she’s not that badly affected anymore. There was an insinuation that she is making it up.

We've also had communication about her attendance (sitting at 80%). There are times when she gets so upset that I refuse to leave her at school to suffer. She gets so overwhelmed by everything very easily and so distressed.

I’ve also had reason to worry about her MH. She’s self harmed and expressed suicidal plans in the past. Since she’s had this room to go to at school, she’s been much better. I really worry she is going to slip backwards again.

AIBU to take her to our GP about her mental health? She’s seen DD before about this and I think she would be supportive. But what can she do to help? Would a letter from the GP help us with keeping the support ? And would it help with getting them off our backs about attendance? She was in such a bad way a few years ago and I don’t want for her to go back to that. I don’t know what to do and whether going to the GP might make things worse.

I don’t think it would make things worse but equally I don’t think the GP would have enough info to support your DD not attending school.

I think you’d get more support by having a meeting with school, I’d want to know exactly what the plan is and why, I’d want to express concerns about the support being withdrawn and find out if there’s a back up plan or if there’s a way things can stay in place. If you don’t agree after that I’d push for educational psychologist referral. I am a secondary senco in England and I don’t find GP letters in these sort of circumstances helpful, the GP won’t know the child very well, and won’t know what the school can and can not provide.

Both my children are like this a supported well by school, in fact DD16 sounds very similar and is taught from home via school paid teachers and online lessons!
Speak to the SEN team, and I'd also be discussing safeguarding as it's putting her at risk of self harm. Also find out from the local hospital when her appointment is likely to be if you've had any communications from them yet? Does your paeds appointment go through a certain route like Small Steps or such? Did she have an external nurse specialist come to school to assess? Try all of these routes - good luck

Many thanks for the posts. Could the GP sort of sign DD off school? ie they wouldn’t be on our backs about attendance?

@CatsWhiskerz no communication from them. It took a year for CAMHS to even accept her on it the list. I’ve been told a minimum of two years.

GP can’t sign off kids from school

Can you pay for her autism assessment @theferry. You shouldn't have to but the right support now may help her to make the best of the rest of her life.

@RosesAndHellebores i asked the school about that but haven’t looked any further. My job is under threat of redundancy so we don’t have much money spare, but I might at least find out the cost.

She can certainly see GP about her MH, but GPs tend not to get involved with schools and requesting accomodations etc. No harm in asking but id focus on finding out about any support/talking therapies they might be able to refer into if appropriate.

Personally I think theres 2 paths to consider, either agree with the school and encourage some resilience, or the other way - explain to school that if the opportunity for her to step out if things are getting a bit much is withdrawn then you'll have to allow her to choose whether she feels ok to be in school or whether she needs MH day off.

@theferry this is very wordy but it outlines how the school must legally meet your daughter's needs

Wouldn’t you meet the school and discuss a plan and your concerns there first?

As a gp absolutely not would we get involved with ‘signing off’ school.
In this situation all I can do is listen, signpost you back to school to discuss and wait for cahms.
I can give you details of any charities/support otherwise in the area but that’s about it.

Even if she had a diagnosis, I can't see it would help her, day to day. Work with the school to develop strategies to help her cope in the classroom, not lesson avoid and fall behind.

Tge GP can give medical evidence of anxiety,school based anxiety if that is what they assess it to be.It is the medical evidence we have which stops us getting fined for DDs abscences from school and ultimately made her eligible for 12 weeks of LA funded online learning -she sits her GCSEs in May and currently getting core subjects online.It really is worth a visit to the GP in case things deteriorated to this point.I hope it doesn't and your child can stay in school .Having abscences authorised will take away a lot of stress for you.

Going to Gp about her mh is a good idea as they may be able to direct you to services that can support her. It’s unlikely they can help with school though.

You need a meeting with school senco and head of year. You could also request that outside services be involved in our area we have a team called acsets that support asd kids in school (school need to include them). We also have a team called sendias that advocates for disabled children’s rights in school (parents contact them) Ask them if they plan to get rid of the room, or reduce her use. Ask what their plan is if she starts to meltdown. They may feel shes taking advantage of the room situation (which may or may not be true)
Does she have a ehcp? If not request they apply for one, if they refuse you can initiate one yourself. Things like sensory breaks can be included in that. Also with Sen needs she can get additional support in exams - seperate room to work in, a scribe etc

You need a meeting with the school to discuss the expectations about exams and her accessing the room she currently uses for time out.
The school are right, she needs to be in lessons if she has any chance of taking her exams (do you want her to sit these?). Is she already doing less subjects than the norm? Is there a different pathway she is following in school already where she is only doing core subjects? I would look initially at this.
Otherwise you need to ask them for alternative provision, can she be on roll at current school but actually attend somewhere else on some days where she maybe does more life skills based/vocational activities.

I think you need to consider what you want her to leave school with. It is not a babysitting service and I can see why she cannot go to the room they have provided all the time, but there are different options as suggested above that can be used. Else home education might be something to consider.

Look into getting an assessment through right to choose rather than waiting for NHS referral. Varies area to area but local to me it’s taking about 9 months from referral to diagnosis.

Sorry I’ve just realised you’re in Scotland so I’m not sure if it’s available there.

The situation in Scotland is very different to England in that schools have a duty to support additional needs regardless of diagnosis. This fact sheet explains clearly what should be happening in Education, Enquire are very good at offering information and support to parents.

In your shoes my first step would be a meeting with the school to discuss how they plan to support your child’s additional support needs. If they plan to remove her safe space, what do they intend to put in its place, how will they support her through exam years, and how will they meet their legal duty to support her learning. We don’t have a SENCO role in Scotland but there will be someone in the school responsible for additional support for learning who should be included in any meetings.

Ask them to provide a copy of your DDs Individual Education Plan - she should have one given she has ASN. If they say she doesn’t have one, they should create one now with a clear description of her needs and how they plan to meet them. The plan should then be reviewed annually. You’ll need to be persistent, know your DDs rights and be prepared to put some time into getting it right for her.

Do you have any other professionals involved eg Ed Psych, SALT, etc if you do you can request a Team Around the Child meeting to discuss your DDs needs and the plan for her support.

It’s a bloody nightmare getting the right support in place.

Ask your GP about the Right To Choose for your daughters autism assessment, this is where you can choose to apply for assessment through services throughout the UK and it can be much quicker especially if you are willing to go through the assessment online.

Right to choose is only available in England, not Scotland.

I would try to access someone to support you in a meeting with school.
I’m not familiar with support services in Scotland but a PP has mentioned some and there is a link to various sources of support and advice below.

Her percentage attendance indicates that she is struggling to manage the school environment, possibly due to sensory overload ,amongst other things.
I have lost count of the number of times that I have experienced staff removing support or strategies citing that the child or young person doesn’t need them.
Sometimes what little support there is such as a sensory item, visual supports, adjustments to timings, a dedicated safe space etc, may be what enables them to “ cope” in an overwhelming and demanding environment.
I’d be asking if they would take away ramps for a wheelchair user or aids from a hearing impaired/ deaf child. Hidden disabilities are more easily overlooked.

https://connect.scot/resources/additional-support-learning-useful-information

When my son got his autism diagnosis the doctor said that medical can advise but it can't instruct schools.

So they can provide evidence for an EHCP but they can't actually tell the school what to do or change their practices.

Only the school can do that.

You can actually apply for an EHCP yourself you don't have to wait for the school to instigate this but they will need to be on board if she doesn't have one already.

The OP is in Scotland the ECHP process doesn’t apply.

Are there other things in place to help your dd apart from the room OP? ie can she wear loop earplugs in lessons to reduce noise, does she have somewhere she can go and decompress quietly at break and lunch times, can she arrive/leave early and go to class early so she misses the craziness of everyone arriving/changing classes, can she do a reduced timetable so she has a break between some classes where she works in a specific place. Can she have a separate space to change for PE if that is an issue. Can she sit in a preferred place back/front of class/end of row. Does she have something she can fiddle with if that helps. Are school aware of her self harm and suicidal thoughts - this is very important.

TBH I think they need to be looking at putting lots of things in place and working out her triggers where possible if they want to try to reduce her meltdowns/not coping/time out. Removing her ability to leave class is a terrible idea and IMO is only going to lead to increased and possibly even complete school refusal. I think you have to make it clear that if she seems better it's BECAUSE she has this in place. Insinuating she's making it up is so offensive and just disgustingly ableist.

Go in and calmly but firmly fight for her OP. They are being very unreasonable.

I would as it's evidence if nothing else and unfortunately you often need it with Sen children. I would say removing her access to the quiet room could be disability discrimination as well btw.

GP support and talk to the head of year, make a formal complaint if necessary