AIBU to still feel guilty over DD lumbar puncture?

[RainbowUnicorse]

When DD was a 4 month old baby she developed a fever,not bad fever tbh around 38. We took her to the hospital and they went all panic on her, she was a reflux baby but until then no one believed how much she cried. In hospital they said she sounded very upset and I told them that it’s her usual cry. They argued with me and insisted that she needs a lumbar puncture. Long story short she was ok, right as rain in 2 days. However I still cry when I think about the fact that they do that procedure without any anaesthetic. They said we’ll just have to pin her down so she doesn’t move. And after the procedure they said it’s important to keep her lying horizontally but they themselves brought her out upright. I suppose it doesn’t help that she’s a very shy girl now that she’s 7, has many anxieties and her main one is that me or my husband are not near her. I cannot help but think that I should have better advocated for her and that her fear of people is partially due to that very traumatic experience….

AIBU?

It was a procedure that could have given life saving information. I know how scary it is when your child is ill but this was essential at the time

"has many anxieties and her main one is that me or my husband are not near her."

Was this a typo

It’s an extremely painful procedure. I really don’t understand why there’s no anaesthetic given.

a friend of mine had a similar story around the same time… but she told the docs to give her baby antibiotics anyway without doing the puncture (because after lumbar puncture a child is given super strong antibiotics for sepsis & meningitis) and monitor her baby. My friends baby ended up having meningitis at the time but she still didn’t need this horrible and painful procedure to establish that and was feeling better within a week.

DS1 had this procedure when he was 7 weeks old. Yes, it's a horrific procedure and for the first one, we were not allowed in the room. I was the second time.

Ultimately, the medics chose a test based on your daughter's presentation and their experience of babies presenting similarly. Had they listened and waited, your dd may have ended up very poorly and with life long complications if the test ended up positive.

Kindly, I would seek help for you to talk through and resolve your own anxieties about this incident as children pick up on parents feelings and emotions without realising, and she could be picking up on your own anxiety about her being with other people and therefore somewhere you cannot advocate for her. She may also come to rely on you instead of developing her own voice and self-esteem to advocate her herself.

As a result of ds1's experience, they thought he might have developed attachment disorder. We were not allowed to pick him up for a week because he was so poorly. But, at 14, while he is still my huggy boy who is more of a home boy, he also has found a group of friends who get him since starting secondary school and is beginning to find his independence.

to elaborate she gets worked up when she’s away from home for a long time (cue no play dates) or if she loses sight of us if she’s doing an activity for example when she goes swimming. She HAS to see us & know where we stand or she would go straight to tears if she can’t see us.

I am so very sorry to read this! It sounds harrowing and as traumatising for you as for her. I can only hope that at four months she won't have had any recollection of it by now. Maybe it could have been avoided but think about the alternative and her having a life-threatening condition- sometimes medics have to make decisions fast. There must have been a risk that they weren't willing to take at that time. There is NOTHING you should have done differently. You are not the responsible professional in these circumstances, which is very hard for a parent to accept. As for your DD's anxieties, maybe she needs additional support? But don't obsess over the past thinking that's the hidden cause as it's going to make you anxious and by extension she will sense that.

She had a septic screen that included a lumbar puncture to ensure she was not critically ill. This is a normal medical procedure done to enable children to be correctly treated and saved lifes.
You definitely should not have done anything differently, you were lucky all turned out ok.
You need to move on from this. Do you suffer with anxiety generally?

My daughter had this procedure at 2 days old I wasn’t allowed in ,I just sat in the corridor crying listening to her.She is now 30 and fine.You really need to stop crying and thinking about this and move on .

If your daughter had been diagnosed with a serious condition via the lumber puncture and had received treatment which saved her life, you wouldn't be feeling this guilt. It must be awful to feel the way you do, but thinking about things from another perspective may help.

Just to clarify I don’t spend all day thinking about that and crying. Just if and when, I get swamped by the guilt and sadness for the little ones that have to endure it. Of course they won’t remember it because they can’t access that memory thankfully. I just think it’s barbaric. Back in the beginning of 20th century babies used to have operations done on them without GA. Was it life saving? Yes. Could we have done better? Well, clearly yes because nowadays we know that babies can experience pain and we try to minimise it.

YANBU. My daughter had one at a day old and I still feel so guilty that she had to go through that. We weren’t allowed with her and I was just doing what I was told back then and she was treated accordingly, but have heard of people having them and how painful etc and it just makes me really sad.

Your daughter is not going to remember this from 4 months old. She is probably picking up the anxiety from you.
For what it's worth, I have congenital ventrigulmegly and intracranial hypertension and need regular lumbar punctures to relieve the pressure off my brain - even I can't remember the "exact feeling of pain" even after a few months.

You’re probably right. I also probably would have felt less guilty if she was more confident and outgoing

I had a lumbar puncture a couple of years ago and it wasn’t painful at all, I barely felt it. The worst part was the headache afterwards but no worse than a migraine.

I think you have severe anxiety and either your daughter has picked up on this and also developed similar behaviour, or your daughter is similarly predisposed to anxiety. She is not behaving the way she is because she had a lumbar puncture as a baby.

I really sympathise with you. When did was 14 months she contracted what we now know was sepsis. However during the process of trying to figure out what was wrong, she had 6 lumbar punctures and they wouldn't let me be in the room with her. I still kick myself so much that I should have insisted . She must have been so scared in there. She had a phobia of people for a long time afterwards, especially those in masks. She's 4 now and I still cuddle her so tight when I think about it

With kindness, you need to speak to someone about this and process your thoughts and feelings about it so you can move on. It sounds like you’re projecting onto her and she is picking up on your anxiety and running with it. This behaviour isn’t due to a lumbar puncture 6 1/2 years ago

I would say that your anxiety over her is causing more of her anxieties than the lumbar puncture she had at 4 months old.

are you anxious when she is not with you?

As a just turned 2 year old i put my hand in a fire. Ended up at hospital having fingertip amputation with no anasthetic as they insisted my nerves were dead and i'd feel nothing. I writhed screaming on my dads lap. They said even where they'd cut i'd still have no feeling in my fingertips my whole life from dead nerves, but i have perfect feeling. Clearly they were wrong and i writhed screaming as i could feel everything.
I have no memory of this what so ever, but my dad is traumatised by it like you seem to be. The brain doesn't develop the ability to form lasting memories til the age of 5, so your daughter really isn't traumatised from something that happened to her at 4 months old, i promise you, she doesn't remember it.
She may well be mirroring your trauma and guilt though if she's aware of what happened and how it affects you.
It's much more likely shyness and not liking not being close is just her personality and would have been regardless.

I don't agree that this procedure is extremely painful. Adults undergo spinal and epidural procedures without anaesthetic all the time, which involves a bigger needle and the infiltration of anaesthetic agents, and takes much longer - without any pre-procedure anaesthetic/sedation at all. So it's not like some exception is being made for babies here.

I have known babies to scream hysterically, usually from the moment of being positioned (they have to be sort of balled up, and many don't like that particularly as they are often unwell and irritable already), moreso than the insertion of the needle. But I have also had a few babies who have suckled with their eyes closed and not so much as a flinch. And lots in between those two extremes. If they did this procedure under general anaesthetic it would be much more dangerous - the babies would have to be intubated and ventilated which would expose them to very significant avoidable risks. Some babies would die as a result.

The procedure is of vital importance to exclude meningitis where it is suspected, particularly in babies. Because if treatment is halted when meningitis is present, there is a massive potential for otherwise avoidable profound suffering, disability or death. I have seen some very very sad cases where this has happened.

I hope that this provides some reassurance about the decision making behind the procedure.

These days it is not painful. They have a different needle which makes it safer, not painful, and doesn’t have after effects. I had one last year and was terrified, but they told me it was no longer like it used to be and they were right.

i know it doesn’t help your daughter at all, OP, but I wanted to let people know in case anyone is facing it themselves or for their children.

Your overreaction and rumination about a minor medical procedure nearly 7 years ago is unreasonable enough that you should speak to someone and get help.

I mean, it can hurt when they accident touch your spine with the needle BUT a 4 month old isn't going to remember.
See my PP.

One of my dc has to lumbar punctures at the same age as yours. It was horrible to watch. During the second one they had a seizure midway and two Dr's pinned them still to keep the needle still. In these situations you can only go with the medical recommendations at the time. What if your dd actually had meningitis or something and they didn't check. Go easy on yourself.

My daughter had one age 4 weeks. It confirmed her diagnosis of meningitis. She survived and is the most confident and outgoing of all my children.
She has absolutely no memory of it, has no fear of medics, it hasn’t affected her in anyway.
OP your daughter is just showing her sensitive personality, embrace it - many people are introverted, it’s not a negative in any way.