Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. Fed up of hearing this expression.

[girlfriend44]

I keep hearing people say people who choose not to work. Target them.
Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. I wonder if some people actually know what they are talking about?

Nobody is allowed to just lounge around and not look for work.

Able bodied people on UC who don't have a paid job are harassed all the time.
They will probably be attending interviews at the jobcentre once a week, where they have to provide evidence they are jobsearching 35 hours a week.

They can be sanctioned over any little thing.
They have to attend any courses they are sent on, even if they are useless courses. Non attendance will end in a sanction.

The staff can arrange interviews on their behalf if the employer has a tie up with the jobcentre which some do.
If it's deemed you didn't try hard enough at the interview, the employer can discuss this with the staff,and you'll be hauled up and sanctioned for not trying.

Those who think people choose not to work please be educated.
It's a hostile environment for anyone out of work.
Not every able bodied person can find employment.
Your not just allowed to sit at home and choose not to work though.

You'll have a claimant commitment and you have to provide evidence of jobsearching. 35 hours too.

I think alot of people who comment don't really know. Everyone is under pressure.
The days of just signing on once a fortnight and not having to.prove your doing everything you can have long gone.

I don't think that reply was meant for me!

They do it in America with food stamps.

If they can't find work, I'd have thought they would take every offer of training going .

Almost like a credits system or the lunch cards the school have. They load your card, you can spend it on gas/ electricity/ petrol/ shopping (but excluding cigarettes and alcohol)

I think that people resent seeing the non- working on benefits living comfortable lives.
How true this is, I don’t know.

I do not think anyone is denying those that are taking advantage of the benefits system are more likely to be from lower income groups, a thread about tax loopholes/evasion will be mainly about higher income groups

high levels of immigration often impacts wc communities differently, impacts pay companies being able to keep pay low, impacts housing rents increase to what was before lower cost accommodation, in turn impacts local gp and school placements it impacts more who mc communities on who they can employ

As for Reform or rather Nigel Farage he listened and tapped into this, he certainly had his own agenda but Labour and the Tories did not until recently hence why even from a Labour government changes are being made that would have certainly been seen as right wing polices a decade ago

This isnt true. My ex doesn't work he has been on benefits for 10 years definitely playing the system

I’ve always felt, and I admit I have no idea how it could work and is probably just a pipe dream, that people should be rewarded for working. Make working something people want to do because it’s worth their while. Supermarket vouchers monthly or something.
If people feel they get something back for working, not just having tax taken off them, it might become a more interesting model for people.
The working person is rinsed every month. It’s no wonder there’s people who, if they know they can get by on benefits, have no intention of getting a job.

Obviously disability payment is different, but job seekers or whatever it’s called needs to be very much a short term, just enough to live on amount. If a job isn’t found in so many weeks, they are made to do so many hours voluntary work a week for their jobseekers to continue. It needs to be enough to push them into realising that work is the better option for a comfortable existence.

As I say, I’m no politician and I know it’s not as simple as I’ve made out. But I do feel strongly that rewarding people for working is the way to go. Dangle the carrot and all that.

It's probably the wrong place to say this as so many MNers are Daily Mail-reading, middle class, older, right-leaning and not open to anything other than what they think is real and will use anecdotal evidence as evidence of the whole population.

I agree with you 100% with your original post. I claim PIP cos I'm disabled but work full time. But the way that the media is talking about it we are all just lolling about doing nothing and don't even need the money. It's pitting the working class against the working class as usual.

I think its more that people who are working full time or the hours that they can often can not live comfortable lives

when you work your outgoings are higher so the little difference there often is between wages and benefits is swallowed up with working costs

if you are working full time/the hours you can you absolutely should be able to love comfortably and many of us are struggling to

Exactly, And when we are struggling and see how much we pay in tax, we resent the people who are benefitting when they shouldn't be. (and by that I do not mean people too ill to work, or carers, or those actively looking for employment, I mean able-bodied, able-minded people who just can't be bothered)

@HRTQueen I’m originally from a midlands mining town - very Reform minded etc - lots of working class and low earners but actually very few immigrants- I went back a few months ago for a few days- hadn’t been back in 25 years- it’s still very white but a few more Eastern Europeans etc- houses are cheap - the chip on shoulder attitudes persist though - mainly amongst men - an awful lot of Andrew Tate types, one of my old friends happily telling me how she plays the system and yep all for Farage etc - not the person I thought she was- I’m not sure what you can do about it though- there seems a complete lack of aspiration or ambition at any level and it’s not an immigrant issue particularly in that area- she also resented anyone that had ‘got on’ usually by having a business and taking a punt and often working lots of hours- and no I’m not a Daily Mail reader at all - centre left voter who does see ‘why’ there are issues, but it doesn’t all come down to the usual suspects, some of it comes down to ingrained local culture, not wanting to move away from family ( which I do get) and the attitudes I feel of quite a mysoginistic local male population rubbing off on the women too

I think her op probably isn’t representative of the experience for people on legacy benefits, but it more than likely is for any one in receipt of UC.

certainly is representative of my experience claiming UC, although I only received “full” payment once in between jobs after being made redundant and the intake for my new job. Even though I could evidence the offer of employment and my acceptance of it, they demanded I attend weekly appts with a job coach. I pointed out I had a job offer and me attending appointments with someone there to ‘help’ me find employment I ALREADY HAD, that they were wasting both their and my time, and they could spend that time helping someone who actually needed help. They did relent and do phone check ins twice, but the other times I had to drive in to see them.

it is a deeply unpleasant experience.

"it is a deeply unpleasant experience."

I'm sure it is if you're genuinely unemployed and looking for work, but it will be water off a duck's back for professional claimants.

I’m not sure all the folks on benefit see it as either a great exciting job or no job at all. I suspect there are a fair few who want to spend their time doing something that has some satisfaction, and unfortunately, there are a lot of jobs out there that don’t offer this.

Would you want to work 40-50 hours a week at…let’s say stacking shelves, working at a call centre listening to customer complaints, cleaning toilets in office buildings in the wee (pun intended…sort of) hours, picking cabbages in the fens in the cold? There are also a lot of what is termed the BS job (sorry for swearing) that are procedural office jobs that are repetitive, dull, and fairly pointless. People on this forum all the time complain about pointless meetings, stupid procedures, arbitrary actions on the part of employers that shows the problems with vocational awe. If given the choice between that or benefits, with no change in my standard of living, I’d choose benefits every time and spend my time reading about something I’m interested in, taking walks, doing some hobbies. Far better use of my life than swabbing toilet duck in an executive suite’s loo.

Why assume all the unemployed are in existential despair, or addicts? Maybe there are a number doing something interesting for themselves. Tracy Emin was on benefit…it let her start her art career. People can find a purpose without a boss telling them what to do if they are educated to do so. But what we do is put kids in rows of desks at age 6 or so and have them wear a uniform so they learn to obey, follow directions, and basically be an employee. How much time is spent teaching them to think for themselves? It is not done so folks think that the only way is they go to school, they work getting told what to do, and they die. it is easier that way for those in authority, no? There are a rare few who do something that is an expression of themselves, and have a rich and self actualised life. But see, I think all people deserve that really. Maybe that is too radical of a thought.

Not when your kids are in school it isn’t. Good for anyone who is able to live the lifestyle they want whilst not working and while their kids are at school, but it is a choice in the majority of cases to be a non-working mum.

Not belittling the work we do as mums, but while it might be harder than a job at times, it isn’t a job, you aren’t paid for it, and you won’t earn national insurance credits towards your state pension.

You definitely can be a mum and an employee, millions of us do it.

@Patterncarmen I absolutely do too - provided they can do it on their own cash rather than public money - if I had a really well off husband would I work just for works sake- provided I was reasonably protected- not on your nelly!! I can find other stuff I would rather do including some voluntary work unless in a hugely satisfying career -

@Patterncarmenso you expect the person stacking shelves to pay tax so someone else can find their creative potential on benefits???
what a crock of horse shit!
if someone want to be creative by all means they can crack on but I’m not funding that bill shit !

👍 Brilliantly put. Hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph.

I have no issues with helping those in need, disabled, who need help financially. It's the able-bodied and able-mined (like a friend of DH who has no health issues and hasn't been working for 15 years, yet claimed benefits the whole time!) that i loathe to suggest we keep supporting. They're not all totally incapable of work,surely? Even part time.

Exactly this. My DH's friend that I mentioned before upthread is a mum, and a good one too, but has refused to work for 15 years as she says that she's better off on benefits. Surely this shouldn't be the case, that there's no incentive to work as you receive more for not doing so?

No health issues at all, just thinks she can be a woman of leisure while the rest of us work and are also mums.

Why do people like her get away with this for so long? What kind of role model is she setting for her daughter?

Yes I agree my DS and his partner have 2 young children. They both have a strong work ethic and work hard. DS is on an average wage and his partner works 16 hours on minimum wage so they can get financial help with nursery costs.
His partner has a friend with 4 children. Not worked for many years. She is now a single parent. One child has SN. She has been allocated a SEVEN seater car for herself and her 4 children. Friend says the difference between benefits and a wage means it’s not worth her working.
tbh I find this unbelievable.
Wages are too low.

Years ago since some women solved financial problems by snagging a rich husband. Nowadays, substitute rich husband with grab government benefits. Don't think that is progress.

At least the rich husband method didn't take from tax payers.

In my area there are generations of work shy individuals that have never worked a day in their lives but somehow work the system. They have all the luxuries and brag about it. More fool us for being conscientious and proud, where does it get you.

No. Benefits are too high and taxes are too high.

My sentiments exactly. If there were not the people stacking shelves and the people picking cabbages in the fens then how exactly does this person expect to be able to go to a supermarket and actually buy food?

It would be great if we could all read up on things we are interested in during the working week and be creative, but sadly it's called earning a living.