Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. Fed up of hearing this expression.

[girlfriend44]

I keep hearing people say people who choose not to work. Target them.
Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. I wonder if some people actually know what they are talking about?

Nobody is allowed to just lounge around and not look for work.

Able bodied people on UC who don't have a paid job are harassed all the time.
They will probably be attending interviews at the jobcentre once a week, where they have to provide evidence they are jobsearching 35 hours a week.

They can be sanctioned over any little thing.
They have to attend any courses they are sent on, even if they are useless courses. Non attendance will end in a sanction.

The staff can arrange interviews on their behalf if the employer has a tie up with the jobcentre which some do.
If it's deemed you didn't try hard enough at the interview, the employer can discuss this with the staff,and you'll be hauled up and sanctioned for not trying.

Those who think people choose not to work please be educated.
It's a hostile environment for anyone out of work.
Not every able bodied person can find employment.
Your not just allowed to sit at home and choose not to work though.

You'll have a claimant commitment and you have to provide evidence of jobsearching. 35 hours too.

I think alot of people who comment don't really know. Everyone is under pressure.
The days of just signing on once a fortnight and not having to.prove your doing everything you can have long gone.

I mean why not? The comment I replied to originally was just another posters anecdotal experience 🤷🏻‍♀️
After having someone hurl abuse at me just for being a young mum minding my business accusing me of having no job, being a slag, "where's your child's dad" etc. Then yes I care more about people's actual individual circumstances than statistics.

And no I don't want anything explained I just want your family to buy me a pint you said they might 😉

What’s your background? What did your parent do for a living? Where did you grow up? What was your school like?

It’s not a “Tory POV” to have grown up seeing benefit scamming be a normal fact of life.

The fact you think this shows your privilege and distance from these places.

I firmly believe that some people do choose not to work and manage to avoid it
They are the people who genuinely can't work should be mad at, not those of us who do work and question why others don't

No one has hurled abuse at you in here. Even when you have been excessively rude to me, I have refrained from returning it in kind.

We are talking about the most likely outcome of a demographic. That is all. Nothing about you as a person, your parenting, your situation.

Just the most likely outcome based on national statistics.

I said my family could happily explain how to scam the benefits system and might buy that poster (not you, not everything is about you) a pint in the process. Mainly because they can almost always be found in the pub. Is that something you’d like help with?

No one has hurled abuse at me here you're right it was someone in public I'd much prefer if it had been on here. But the reason for that happening was because that person believed all the stereotypes about young mums being lazy and on benefits that get said on here

Anyway I don't think I've been rude to you and I apologise if you feel that way. You yourself have described your own family as benefit cheats always in the pub etc so I was pretty much just saying not all teen mum's are like that and your bad experience has probably clouded your judgement.

nope, it wont be as quick as that. You can be sanctioned also if they dont think you are looking for enough jobs, they can decide whats enough.
Try it.

@Galashiels I actually think age is irrelevant and to be honest in recent years I’ve seen far fewer teen mums anyway. You can get 18 year old young mums who work their arses off and 49 year olds with no commitments doing jack shit

They cant its very difficult but that is what is expected. Just jotting down a few jobs as people seem to think dosent work. An advisor can recommend you for sanction, and it goes to a decision maker. You have to prove you spent a long time looking and giving evidence. If not sanction.

Also sanction for being 5 mins late for appt even if the bus broke down. Not always as easy as turning up once a week.

I know more than a few people who post-COVID chose not to work - people in senior positions with good investment portfolios and pensions who just decided to jack it in in their 40s/50s and live off their investments while waiting for their pension to kick in. A lot of them have a 'hobby job', often something artistic/creative as a nice alternative to years of corporate life.

how long can that reastically go on though. Every week at your appointments forever, nothing ever comes up.

Focusing on the scammers not the overall purpose of having a benefits system and s caring society is what right winger want us to do.

As for your questions, I think I'm a fairly usual leftie who values the welfare state as a concept and doesn't want it diluted or - heaven forbid - to end up following US models

And as long as they are not taking benefits that they don't need or have no right to, there's no problem with them making that choice.

i wouldn’t throw the Tory word around on this topic- plenty of us who voted Labour and Lib Dem are fed up of pisstakers too - as they are actually keeping the country in a situation where it struggles to implement and maintain basics-. and yes plenty of us do actually know people in this category - I don’t mean those genuinely unable to work in any capacity - I mean those who decide it’s not in their interests and work out how to maximise the system - and no it’s not just ‘a few’ - it’s endemic. Yes some Labour voters will hold their hands up in horror as to me some seem incredibly naive about others motivations- but plenty will know people the gvt are aiming it and agree with them.

although the main issue I do actually see is to be frank that some people are now simply unemployable having done bugger all for years - and the job situation isn’t great either. However that doesn’t mean that those taking the piss should continue getting ‘enhanced’ benefits over and above what they are due in UC

Hes constantly under threat of a sanction then. You cant just say i have applied for a few jobs and get money. Some people need to go and see what its like before they comment.

Jobcentres also have tie ups with companies who want staff. Normally they are the shitty jobs that nobody wants like factory work where you can be bussed in on transport. They need loads of people.
They will arrange an interview for you. You cant just say you dont want to go to it.

They also ask for feedback from that employer as to how you got on at interview.

@Mielikki but that’s not what was being talked about- I know plenty in that position and they aren’t claiming- usually because they have cash at hand, inheritances and often partners still working.

Well, obviously they don't take benefits (and I doubt they would be eligible for them), but early retirement is having a huge impact on the economy - many companies simply cannot fill senior posts and younger employees are lacking in mentors. In fact early retirement has had more of an impact on the economy than the increase in long term sickness according to this parliamentary report: https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/175/economic-affairs-committee/news/175197/early-retirement-and-our-ageing-population-are-causing-labour-shortages-says-lords-report/

That didn’t address my questions.

What’s your proximity to the reality of this?

I wouldn't worry. I have been told that now, if you have the right software, AI will record your meeting and produce accurate minutes within seconds of the meeting ending, which it will immediately email to all participants. That's a massive part of admin jobs, project management jobs, partnership liaison jobs - Gone.

If you ever watched Humans, the robots were doing all low-paid menial jobs like caring, cleaning and admin - Humans were unnecessary, bored and unemployed on a massively global scale. AI will make this reality not fiction sooner than we think. You will no longer need anyone other than exceptionally good computer programmers. No civil servants, no admin, no Council workers, no finance workers, no tradespeople, no carers, nothing. Everyone unemployed.

Not so sure. If they were working in professions with skill shortages/staff shortages, I think there's a very real moral argument that they should continue working, even if part time, for the good of the country, and if we have to give incentives for them to do it (or punitive measures to stop them retiring early) then I think it's something we should be looking into to "encourage" them to work a little more for the good of the country. Especially in extreme shortage areas such as teaching, doctors, dentists, etc. Obviously can't force them, but a little carrot and a little stick to make it worth their while could benefit everyone. Of course, along with that, more realistic flexibilities from the employers, i.e. more flexible shift patterns, part time working, etc.

One of my OHs new "friends" who is one of his regular nurses when he has his monthly infusions is taking "early retirement" because she says her department are too inflexible in insisting she works 4 full days per week and she just can't do it anymore as it's an active standing/walking job with little time to sit down. They refused point blank to consider fewer days or part time, so she's upping and leaving. Adios! Stupid thing is that she's immediately coming back on a different level (don't really understand) where that level is allowed to work part time mornings or afternoons, but she won't be able to administer the drips, cannula's anymore nor take blood samples - she's restricted to "unspecialised" work apparently such as taking blood pressure, temperature, making the coffee and general paperwork so I think HCA level. What a waste of a qualified/experienced senior specialist nurse for the want of a bit of flexibility on the part of the department management!

are they claiming benefits saying they are "unable " to work or just changed direction and enjoying work instead ? if it's the latter then different to what this thread is about

I claimed JSA for around 4 months last year after I was made redundant and it was about as easy as that for me. You could very easily just add jobs you'd seen online to your diary and pretend you'd applied, in my experience they never checked up on any of them. My appointments never really lasted more than 5 minutes, and my job "coach" would just tell me it looked like I had things under control and sent me on my way.

Tbf I was a genuine job seeker and applied for a LOT of jobs (probably 500+ in that 4 month period). I never showed them evidence of any jobs I'd applied to or the few interviews I was given.

I also had to reschedule two appointments as I had interviews booked in that meant I wouldn't make it, I asked if they wanted proof or the email confirmations and they said it was fine and not to worry about it!

I wasn't suggested any courses to go on but they did contact me to ask if I wanted to go on an open-day for an air stewarding role (I live quite near Gatwick). I thought I might be sanctioned if I declined but I mentioned that the company careers website says no visible tattoos and that you must be able to pass a vision test (I'm heavily tattooed and have to wear glasses/contacts to see) and they said no problem.

Obviously everyone's experience is different but mine was very, very laidback.

I don't disagree with those saying there's a moral obligation to continue working at some level, especially anyone in a medicine-related profession with skills in short supply. I ended up in a similar predicament when technology changed the world I worked in 20 years ago (the Internet arrived) so I did a PGCE... but the schools locally didn't want 53yo NQTs with a primary age child. I'm not, even now, totally retired but I only do pension fund admin and company secretary work for DH to earn my crust.

That’s exactly what my cousin does and he’s nearly 50.

Those who think people choose not to work please be educated

I find this insulting, as your post shows OP, many people are somehow playing the system and choosing not to work. I know of someone myself, he can’t possibly be doing all the proactive job searching and regular meetings or whatever it is you’re suggesting he will be doing as he lives with his girlfriend 135 miles away from the home he keeps that is paid for by some form of benefit. Absolutely nothing wrong with the chap I assure you, yet he lives a fairly decent life from benefits (not sure which) hasn’t worked for over 20 years and likely never will again (aged 55 I think)

We can’t tar everyone with the same brush, obviously, but you can’t say we all need educating because some people definitely do choose to not work.

4 months is not long term.