Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. Fed up of hearing this expression.

[girlfriend44]

I keep hearing people say people who choose not to work. Target them.
Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. I wonder if some people actually know what they are talking about?

Nobody is allowed to just lounge around and not look for work.

Able bodied people on UC who don't have a paid job are harassed all the time.
They will probably be attending interviews at the jobcentre once a week, where they have to provide evidence they are jobsearching 35 hours a week.

They can be sanctioned over any little thing.
They have to attend any courses they are sent on, even if they are useless courses. Non attendance will end in a sanction.

The staff can arrange interviews on their behalf if the employer has a tie up with the jobcentre which some do.
If it's deemed you didn't try hard enough at the interview, the employer can discuss this with the staff,and you'll be hauled up and sanctioned for not trying.

Those who think people choose not to work please be educated.
It's a hostile environment for anyone out of work.
Not every able bodied person can find employment.
Your not just allowed to sit at home and choose not to work though.

You'll have a claimant commitment and you have to provide evidence of jobsearching. 35 hours too.

I think alot of people who comment don't really know. Everyone is under pressure.
The days of just signing on once a fortnight and not having to.prove your doing everything you can have long gone.

And she claims benefits?

A few years back I was living in a refuge. We were encouraged to "heal" and not work. I had to give up my job- due to relocation. My goodness-I was bored!!!! I have my job now and I like my own money and routine.

But I met a few women during my time there and (not to judge) who purposely decided not to work.

One because of her anxiety- but she has no problem socializing and dating weirdos. She seemed well and spends her days doing the school run for her one child and arranges dates during the day.

One because of her ADHD and her childcare around her now 4yr old. (She has 3 kids). So she claims PIP and disabled care element for all two of her children and is now trying to claim for the youngest- citing neurodivergence. She claims so much money- she effectively doesn't need to work.

One a single woman- who claims PIP and spends it on scratchcards and is not financially savvy.

They were all lovely women and would make excellent employees. But they found a loophole and they flaunt it. I've never met people who deliberately choose to not work. It was eye opening.

Exactly and then others say it’s a tiny minority when in reality it isn’t.

I don't see the issue with that? It might mean she gets helps with her rent.

The one with the ADHD will be buggered when all the kids grow up and she loses all the child related benefits.

I actually know someone who has worked out how to game the system. They’ve overstated their mental unwellness and now collect £2400 pcm. That’s a significant pre tax salary

I don’t think OP realises that although there are processes in place to make sure people claiming are looking for work, it doesn’t actually happen, unfortunately.

Other countries seem to run their unemployment systems in a much more sensible way, which is to give you a pretty high % of your previous income for the first few months and rapidly scale back. It is clearly a system designed to be a safety net for people who are usually employed but unexpectedly lose a job, and in the meantime have financial commitments they can't easily get out of, so they don't lose their good credit etc and spiral down.

I don't see what the point is of someone being on a benefit for being "out of work" for years/decades on end.

All well and good until your husband leaves you…

You say people have to provide evidence of job searching 35 hrs a week.

Well, yes, when you are out of work but need to pay for things of course your primary activity should be finding a job. If you are truly committed to finding a job then much of your week will be researching jobs, visiting workplaces, making applications and then going to interviews. Then the time you’d spend following up on unsuccessful interviews to find out why you weren’t chosen so you can improve for next time…..

Why do you get more disability benefit for each child? Where is the extra cost coming from?

A quick Google tells me a nurses average salary is around £33k and a care assistant between £26k and £31k, nursery worker around £30 (qualified).

All contributing towards society with the work they do. Financially shouldn't be the only way to quantify contribution, because without at least the last 2 roles - how many people preening themselves for being net contributers are going to actually be able to earn that without using those services? Maybe they should be putting their money where their mouth is and paying more for them, so there's more net contributers - all for the greater good isn't it? That or they can look after their own children and frail, ill and elderly relatives.

We all know/know of people that are taking advantage of the system and getting away with it. To say this doesn’t happen is extremely naive. That’s the reality.

Have you not read the news have you not seen the huge increase in people claiming to be unable to work in the last five years

something is very wrong in this country that so many people are unable to work and the numbers are increasing

not one person on here is suggesting those who are genuinely unable to should be forced to and it’s unfortunate that when this is in the news they feel targeted but we can not sweep it under the carpet

many of us have experience in our lives of people who have no intention to work and feel the state should support them simply because they have no desire to work

while the vast majority believe that the state should help those who are genuinely in need of support be this temporary or for life the majority do not feel it should be lifestyle choice even if the choice is to live off very little it’s still a choice some rather woudl make than commit themselves to work

the increase in numbers is utterly staggering and this has to be dealt with

I've had a couple of episodes of unemployment and my experience was very much as the OP has said. I even had a home visit to check I wasn't secretly working (not sure how that would work now with a lot of remote and hybrid working). I had to take in details of every job I applied to, every interview I attended, and how long I had spent searching for work.

At the same time, my exh chose not to work just so he didn't have to pay me any child maintenance. He was working cash in hand sometimes and would openly brag about it to me but I had no evidence to prove it and he had officially been deemed unfit to work. He made a miraculous recovery though the very next day after our son reached the age where no more child maintenance was expected.

I don't know HOW my exh did it, but he definitely played the system and beat it.

Job seekers allowance is different to disability welfare payments.

slight over reaction......

Exactly this. People outright faking but also people who think because they aren't 100% healthy they shouldn't be asked to work.

Meanwhile there are other quite profoundly disabled people who do work, and who are reluctantly, through taxes, helping to pay to support the lifestyle shirkers.

Noone is suggesting the most disabled people should work. Indeed this governments proposal is that those people should be helped to get more benefits, to have a better life, which is something I wholeheartedly support

Oh I agree.

She's aware. As she already told me, she had the youngest after the government 2 child limit of claiming child benefit and she found a loophole in that- claimed she was co-erced into having another child. This I am not disputing- this does happen in abusive "relationships," and it can't be proven to be wrong.

However she had a pregnancy scare last year and it showed me, that she knows how to work the system. She also was awarded £16,000 in back pay for her eldest for his diagnosis. It didn't matter how I told her to save the money and use it correctly, when she asked for advice. This went in 3 months, due to the abusive ex, her generosity with users and she's not financially savvy at all. I was shocked that they give this type of money out.

However I now keep my distance from her, as she still leads a chaotic life and I don't want that in my life.

This is not me. I'm not sure to be honest. I think there is a higher care rate and a lower care rate- what defines this- I'm not sure.

People like that do exist. As others have said it is often more complex than simple laziness - it can be deeply ingrained learned behaviour from childhood and if not addressed early people can become genuinely unemployable.

It is enraging but I also feel sorry for people like that, it's no life really - spending hours finding ways to avoid work, constantly behold to government policy. It feels like such a waste of life and potential.

I am lucky enough so far to have only had two short periods of unemployment where I claimed JSA. There is no way I would have been able to genuinely spend 35 hours a week job hunting. I didn't get any hassle or asked to provide any evidence of searches. However I think that is more to do with the fact I was on contributions based JSA and frankly my job coach saw I was likely to get a job quickly so left me alone (I already had an interview lined up by my second signing on date).

why do you not believe so many people's accounts?
Do you not think the "anecdotes" tally with the massively high welfare bill?

But where are the jobs I know several young people still looking for their first proper job. They are working (at nmw) but even entry level jobs are asking for experience

But that's fine, there will always be people who are not net contributors because their jobs aren't bringing in that sort of money (it's higher than 30k). They are still paying into the system and contributing to the economy through their work. I take exception to individuals who don't even try to work or work the bare minimum required because the state is there to keep them.

"The days of just signing on once a fortnight and not having to.prove your doing everything you can have long gone."

And why wouldn't you be doing everything you can to find a job?