Is my car dealer a cheapskate?

[TheFancyDuck]

AIBU to think that a £25,000 'approved' used Mini bought from a franchised dealer should not need to have two worn tyres replaced after less than 3 weeks of normal use ( less than 500 miles)?

They are worn in that they are just legal, but below the point where safety is affected in the wet. Kwik Fit measured the tyre tread depth at 2mm and advised immediate replacement- the Mini owners' handbook states that tyres should be replaced at 3mm. The tyres have now been replaced at our expense and the dealer refuses to contribute.

I’d imagine there’s a minimum depth when it goes through the prep, probably 3mm. I wouldn’t trust Kwik Fit to tell me the sky is blue though. I would say though, surely you noticed this when you initially looked at the car? When you found out, the best course of action would’ve been to take it back to the dealer for them to look at, I wouldn’t expect them to take anyone’s word for it and even then they could argue that the tyre wear occurred during the 500 miles if they’re on the driven wheels.

A dealer will not change tyres and have no obligation if they are within the legal limit unless you do some pre-purchase negotiation.

People often trade cars at the same time as costly expenses are due and tyres are often well worn on garage forecourts.

The last car bought were low on the front tyres but I offset this with the car I part exd which were low on all four.

Legal is legal what ever safety you say is affected after that is perception

A dealer will not change tyres and have no obligation if they are within the legal limit unless you do some pre-purchase negotiation.

Approved preparation standards are higher though and tyres below a certain level will be replaced automatically. Many manufacturers are 3mm.

Well the dealer did tell me that the tyres would have 4mm. tread. I admit I was stupid to believe him.

@SeaShellsSanctuary1 yes legal is legal of course, but you expect higher standards when buying a two year old car from a main dealer, when their sales pitch is that cars are meticulously inspected. I'd have lower expectations if I was buying it off someone's drive.

Sorry but I disagree you may expect higher standards but a dealer will never replace a legal tyre, maybe a high end car but not their 25k bread and butter. 25k is the max we have paid for cars so I'm not being a snob.

I completely appreciate what the value and expectation means to you but a car dealer isnt in the business to match that.

It really does come down to the purchaser being more vigilant and negotiating before purchasing

Have you checked the tread yourself? Just wondering if one of the measurements wasn’t correct?

Argh. Kwik Fit. The place where I had to take my lease car when it had a flat tyre. Someone ran in to it in their car park and the manager shrugged his shoulders. Thankfully the insurance didn’t have the same oh well attitude.

I wouldn’t trust them to baby sit a screw.

@festivemouse @Potsofpetals the dealer I bought from is 130 miles away, so when I noticed the tyres were worn I took it to my local Mini dealer to ask their opinion. They measured the tread depth at 2.7mm, and said the tyres needed replacing immediately.

Sorry but I disagree you may expect higher standards but a dealer will never replace a legal tyre, maybe a high end car but not their 25k bread and butter. 25k is the max we have paid for cars so I'm not being a snob.

Nonsense. As I said all manufacturers will have a minimum tread depth. BMW, MINI and VW are all 3mm for example. Tyres below this level will be replaced automatically as it goes through the workshop. No main dealer is going to retail a car with barely legal tyres fitted.

I took it to my local Mini dealer to ask their opinion. They measured the tread depth at 2.7mm, and said the tyres needed replacing immediately.

I thought you took it to Kwik Fit? Anyway, anyone who tells you that your 2.7mm tyres need replacing immediately is a liar and is laying it on thick to sell you new tyres. At that level they’re about 80% through their life and wet performance is starting to reduce but nothing compared to a tyre at the legal limit.

If they really were 2.7mm rather than 2mm then it’s absolutely not beyond the realms of possibility that they measured 3mm at the supplying dealer.

I have been in a similar situation with a dealer. Legal is legal but not in this case safe, and safety is emphatically not a perception. Check pretty much any motoring organisation you like and they will say that tyres should be replaced at or before 3mm.

A few years ago tyre manufacturers lobbied the government to have the legal minimum raised from 1.6 to 3 mm. A cynic will say they would, wouldn't they, but it was based on objective measurement of stopping distances.

MIRA: "Stopping distances in the wet start to increase dramatically at tread depths of below 3mm". At the legal minimum tread depth of 1.6mm, stopping distance increased by 37% to 45% depending on the type of road surface.

And ROSPA say: "Drivers should change their tyres once the tread depth reaches 3mm in depth".

If dealers are selling cars with 3mm of tread don't buy one in the rain because there is a good chance that by the time you get home the car will be less safe than you think.

And that’s all very well and nice to have etc but the VAST majority of the UK’s motorists wouldn’t dream of replacing a 3mm tyre, hell from what I see there are a large percentage that wouldn’t even replace a 1.6mm tyre.

Interestingly, tyre manufacturers are putting a lot of effort into making tyres perform at low tread depths. Michelin specifically boast that their tyres significantly outperform their competitors at the legal minimum.

Good luck arguing with a dealer that 3mm tyres aren’t safe 😂

According to the OP, even the car's handbook says that tyres should be replaced at 3mm. Let's say you run into something and they are more worn than that, what do you think your insurance company is going to do to your compensation?

Good luck arguing in that situation that your tyres were safe, and did not contribute to your accident.

You really think an insurance company care about tyres with more than 1.6mm on them? 😂 If they were illegal then they could go down the road worthiness clause that’s in every policy but as long as they’re legal they won’t care a jot.

@Shade17 sorry, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to take my car to more than one place. The way it went was I looked at the back tyres, the salesman said 'we sell cars with a minimum of 4 mms tyre tread depth' I believed him and bought the car. When I looked at the car at home I thought that the front tyres looked very worn, but as I don't have a tyre tread measuring device I dropped in to our local Mini garage (who will service and repair the car while I have it) to see what they thought. They thought that the tyres were worn and if I wanted to maintain stopping distances etc they needed replacing. I then took the car to Kwik Fit for them to order the new tyres.
We obviously move in different circles. I don't know anyone who would drive on tyres with less than 3 mms tread if they knew how they affected the way the car drives.
The cost of 2 new tyres is neither here nor there, they get replaced regularly. I just think that people should be wary of buying cars from main dealers in the expectation of them having been thoroughly checked. This one plainly had not been.

I think the salesman was mistaken (or lying) when he said 4mm as 3mm is the cutoff for approved BMW/MINI and I can well believe they measured at 3mm when they went through the workshop although even at that I agree they should’ve replaced them.

As for the circles I move in 😂try working in the motor trade for a couple of days or even just open your eyes when in car parks. The stuff I see just parked is horrendous and the stuff professionally 😮Think 3 year old cars that cost £100k new, running tyres with the canvas showing. I’d bet that more than 90% of cars on the road don’t have their tyres replaced at 3mm, most non-car people don’t even look at their tyres from one MOT to the next. Our dailies get weekly pressure and visual checks and the toys just as they’re used.

Presumably you looked at this car before buying it? Why didn’t you look at the tyres? 4mm+ tread remaining would be quite obvious to the eye that they weren’t anywhere near due.

@Shade17
I reread your post more carefully and was very interested to see that you were right about Michelin.

"The minimum tread depth is 1.6 mm. This means that it is imperative to change your tyres once this limit has been reached to avoid compromising your safety and breaking the law. But it also means that it is premature to change your tyres before this threshold." ( https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/advice/tyre-basics/tyre-tread-depth )

This follows EU regulation (R117-04), which stipulates that tyres must meet the same minimum wet weather braking requirement when worn down to the lawful minimum tread of 1.6mm, as they do when new.

This is good in the long run (although it doesn't apply to the UK, in practice its effect will be the same), but complicates matters for the next few years. You have to know when the act came into force and the date on your tyres to know where you stand, and for a long time there will be an ageing pool of non-compliant tyres rolling around which will not be replaced until 1.6mm once that becomes regarded as the new minimum safe standard.

That’s interesting, I suspect that with the law being a minimum level of performance that new tyres will exceed that and worn tyres will meet it. I can’t see a situation where a 1.6mm tyre performs just as well in wet braking as a new one, it seems like that would be tricky to engineer. It would be interesting to see a top spec new Michelin with 2mm vs a new one from 20 years ago in a wet braking test.

Tyres aren't the only element here for braking performance.

Discs and pads are more critical.

Did the OP check those? Replacing them isnt cheap either.....

You only checked one set of tyres?

And you lost .7m of tread driving from the Mini garage to Kwik Fit?