Is this fraud?

[cloudbusting123]

This is a question for a friend not myself:

Friend (Anna) and husband (John) are in a bad relationship, she has two DC (10 and 7). Friend has been trying to leave husband for a while but has not been in a position financially to leave.

Anna’s sister has just bought a new house with enough room for Anna and her two children to live in for the next year whilst she gets on her feet and long term looks to move to the area that her sister is in.

Annas DC (10) will be applying for high schools whilst they will be staying at their sister house.

Is it ok for Anna to apply for high schools in that area as they are staying with Anna’s sister or would she need to apply under the address that John will be residing in? The local high school is in walking distance from Anna’s sisters house but would be a different catchment area from John’s house.

It would make more sense for her to apply in that area as she is looking for a house there but she worries that this might be fraud?

Geniune concern for Anna (and not for me) so please don’t flame me!

AIBU - this is fraud

YANBU - no that makes sense

@Weekabc - yes I get that but my understanding is that she will be living in the area when she applies AND plans to stay in the area. So it’s not just intention.

As others have said, Anna needs to be officially registered as living at her sister's address (electoral role, bank account etc.), but so do her children. Anna needs to change their address also (e.g., with doctor and current primary school). If Anna and John officially separate, she will need evidence that she is the main carer, and the children live more than 50% of the time with her. It would be helpful evidence if she is registered as the recipient of child benefit for them. Schools often use this as evidence of which parent the child lives with mainly.

YANBU. Nor fraud- it should be the address they are living at, and if they are living with the sister that is the address.

Why are you so bothered about what your ‘friend’ is doing? 🙄 Hate reverse threads.

None of your business. Misplaced concern.

I believe she'll be on very rocky ground to apply to schools local to her DSis's home without actually living there. She should be living there and have her address changed on official docs. I am sure the LA will have heard of the story of "She wants to leave and live with her sis" before as I know they do checks if the school is popular by turning up at people's homes. They will want evidence she and the children are there. If this is genuine and she will move in say, 3-4 weeks, then why not call the school and explain?

Does she not need to show evidence of address? I live outside of the UK but had to show about 5 different forms of proof of address to be able to enrol in a popular high school, one of which had to be either the property deeds or rental agreement. Presumably they would be in the sister’s name, not your friend’s name.

Also there seems to be an assumption that the children will remain with your friend all or most of the time. What if their father challenges this?

So I wouldn’t say it’s “fraud” if she does plan to stay there long term but I would say it may not be as simple as you make it sound.

How far is she planning to move?

Your friend and her children will be living with her sister so will be in that catchment area, and if/when they move they also intend to be in that catchment area. Where her soon to be ex lives is irrelevant. Best wishes to her in this new chapter!

Ynbu

ok this may sound blunt but , it’s a school place for a child I think the whole thing is being overthought it’s not like the woman’s committing benefit fraud or something serious it is simply a school place , catchment schools mean nothing in most areas these days anyway ( my children have never attended the school that is their “ catchment “ purely as they’re awful” I think by the sounds of it she has more things to worry about than the school she’s intending on sending her child to. We all pay our taxes and into the education system and children are all eligible for education so it’s irrelevant what school her children end up in .

It's absolutely fine - it'll be where she lives, especially when she changes her address with the bank, child benefit, mobile phone, goes on the electoral roll straight away, pays her proportion of council tax, etc, etc.

Council tax evidence is important.
Showing the children are with her 50/50 or more is also important. Does she claim child benefit in her name? If not do so promptly.
But look at the council or school's admission policy for the relevant year and talk to the council or school about the oversubscription ranking criteria and how they establish which is the child's primary residence.

When you apply, the council will check you are on the electoral role and council tax records.
Then when the schools get the list of pupils they request other documents. We had to send utility bills, Letter from Drs, and council tax statement. Each school can choose what they ask for.

You can call the school admissions and ask what they will ask for.

We were in a rented house and just about to move to another rented house as the rented house we were living in had issues with electricals, we actually moved closer to the school but I checked out this entire process with due dilligence to make sure we wouldnt lose the place.

I wpuld advise calling her council and asking if they require documents other than the electoral role and council tax and also the school and checking what documents they also need.

I made sure my child was registered eith the local dr as this was a thing we needed to also prove. And child benefit statement was coming to the address we were living in.

When we moved after the school placement allocation, I had to find a house within the catchment as the school checked up until the start date that we were living still within catchment.

We also had to be within the catchment at thr time of applying, not moved in within 3 months before applying. Different councils have diffefent rules about this too.
As soon as you start then you can live where you like.

It's not fraudulent 😊 she will be residing in the catchment area for said high school. When they talk about fraudulent it's when people use another relatives address to get into a school in that catchment area when they dont live on it. Good luck to your friend x

Presumably she's never going back to her ex husbands, and all her stuff and banking etc will be moved over to the new address. She could do a tenancy agreement if that's needed as proof but as long as a couple bills are coming to her there that should be enough.

It's no different to if she moved out into a rented small flat through an agent as she's left the family home permanently in the split.

So I would not considering it dodgy at all.

He sounds an absolute arse. Fancy trying to scupper the kids' chances to get leverage over his wife.

As long as she is living there, changes her mailing address to there and is staying for the forseeable, it's not fraud at al. I know a number of people who were in similar situations.

Nail on the head. She'd need to have some "evidence" that she was genuinely living them to avoid any accusation of fraud, and things like electoral roll, bank addresses, DLVA driving licence/car registration address, personal utility bills such as mobile phone contracts, etc., would also be useful to "prove" where she was living if it was ever challenged.

Absolutely fine! She will be living at her sisters house so applies school in that catchment. The only thing she must do is change her address with the school so they will give the local authority that address when they send out the letters on how to apply etc

We have to provide evidence of address in Kent:

First piece of evidence includes a copy of:

• Council Tax statement for 2024 to 2025 or 2025 to 2026, or
• a signed tenancy agreement or exchange of contracts with confirmed completion date.

Second piece of evidence should include a copy of at least one of the following:

• Child Tax Credit, Working Tax Credit, Job Seeker Allowance, Disability Benefit letter or statement
• a driving licence
• a schedule of motor insurance
• a utility bill, such as gas, water, electric or broadband
• a payslip.

Third piece of evidence includes proof your child lives with you, which can be a copy of a:

• doctor or hospital letter in their name
• savings account or bank account in their name
• Child Benefit statement.

She’s already dealing with a relationship breakdown and having to move her kids and they are losing their home and starting again and you are accusing her of fraud - nice!!!

Reassure your friend that this will not be fraud but that she should check with school admissions team to find out what proof of address will be required so she can get those things prepared. Good luck to her.

If she’s genuinely living there, then fine. In Cheshire you have to provide your council tax account number as proof.

She needs to move in and have a paper-trail with that address before she applies. If she applies before that's in place, or without being honest that they don't live there "yet" then she's on a sticky wicket.
We were in a similar situation, due to move house to a different local authority, but no evidence except a solicitor's letter confirming our right to live at the property and our intention to move in the Summer (long story). The authority staff were very sympathetic but their hands were tied. They advised us to use our top preferences for schools in the new location, and lower preference for an "insurance " school in the old location. It all worked out in the end, as one of the schools in the new location was, quite unusually, undersubscribed that year. Miracles happen!

I don't understand why a legal question isn't in legal matters instead of AIBU, but never mind. No, it's not fraud - at least in the criminal law sense - because a fraud involves an intent to make a gain (of cause a loss) in money or other property. A school place is not property; and so, this cannot be a fraud, regardless of how honest or dishonest others might deem it to be.

If the question is actually "is this a lie?"
then my question would be "what was the question you were answering?" If the question was "where do you live?" or "what is your address" then OP has not told any untruths. If however it is "where have you been living for the last five years?" and OP put down only the address she has lived at for the last six months (or whatever) then that's obviously a lie - but not fraud.