Anyone else worried about the terrible job market?

[Sorryagain]

I’ve been self employed throughout my professional life - over 30 years. I was in one profession, then broadened out and added more skills and generated a lot of work in another industry.

Both industries are fucked. Tons of redundancies, no hires. Barely any contract work. Lots of people looking. LinkedIn is a cesspit.

I am used to the hustle - but I’ve never known it so hard, nigh on impossible, to get work.

Ive been applying for permanent roles I think I could do - but even with my tons of transferrable skills, such is the market that there are enough people who perfectly fit the job description that I don’t get a look in.

Im lucky in that I have a partner who works - but I want to work. I’m seriously terrified of how bad things are - it’s never been like this for me, ever.

I just wanted to see if others are facing this?

And because I think it’s a combo of AI and cost of living/economics, I can’t see how things will improve.

What's the point of this post without saying what the job actually is? Are you worried it's outing?

@taxguru All those jobs can and are be done by AI.

@taxguru Construction is ripe for automation. Building houses out of individual bricks is extremely inefficient. Check out the giant 3D printers already being tested to extrude buildings from foamed concrete. Modular builds are also much more efficient than building brick-by-brick onsite. Many of the back office functions such as HR, finance etc can easily be automated or off-shored.

@bobajob1 the government can’t tax the techbros as they are not in the UK. And, realistically, you can’t raise tax from people who can change their location on a whim, and have far better accountants and lawyers than the government will ever have.

Really tough job market now, and will get tougher come April, retail seem to be adopting a practise of not recruiting when a staff member leaves, with the expectation of the remaining staff to pick up the lack. High Street is looking bleak.

So many people job hopped during Covid, often losing established redundancy rights. Personally I think there will be a lot of redundancies this year, already happening with NHS England etc and lots of companies will be following to save money drive efficiency.

Government want to get people into work, but where are the jobs. Taxing companies to death isn’t helping. Definitely an employers market.

There is no growth in the UK, and times will be tougher for quite a few years I expect. Seen this economic pattern a few times over the years, just hope it won’t be as bad as the late 80’s when our mortgage rate was 14%. We knew a few people who lost their homes, or were trapped in negative equity for years.

It takes a long time to learn my trade, a good 10 years to be a master like me - so I'm not too worried by the kids, I would be 55 by the time a surge intake got to my level, and it ain't happening! but I say good luck to them and welcome them if they want to come on board, there is a huge shortage.

Yes I know, I use AI myself to create and improve databases and spreadsheets etc. But rather than remove my job, it's meant I can create better databases and spreadsheets. I've automated a lot of manual entry work, created some enhanced reporting and graphs etc. My job is still here, but the output I can provide clients is vastly improved and the time I spend far reduced, and that's something I can charge extra for so time saved AND higher quality higher chargeable work - it's a no brainer. It's far beyond doing what I used to do but faster, the outputs/outcome are massively better. It's basically turned me from a self taught basically competent average user of databases and spreadsheets into an advanced user doing things I could only ever have dreamed of. And it's only the start, I'm learning new stuff every day via AI - it's my default these days whenever I'm doing any task to stop and think and ask it how to do something. Got to embrace it or fall behind and let others over-take you in terms of transferrable skills, etc.

It makes me feel so sad how hard it is to retrain.

DH lost his job 2 years ago and, after looking around at options for office jobs and how desperately shit the wages are, he retrained into a trade (not a classic trade). This was only possible because we could afford for me to cover his wages, pay for his course, buy him all of the tools he needed, and buy him a van. It cost THOUSANDS.

I'm SO BORED by what I do, I sometimes think my heart is going to stop beating, but it's basically impossible for me to retrain. We've already spent a massive chunk of our savings on DH's retraining, and anything I would want to do (hands on jobs that appeal - nutritionist, OT, building surveyor) would need a degree, which would cost £30+k and I'd need my lost wages to be covered for 3 years. And I'd be SO nervous that, at the end of it all, there wouldn't be any jobs anyway in this utterly shit economy.

Like many others on this thread, I think my best option - now I'm 40 - is to fudge my way through the next 20 years by coasting, and going part time when I can. Basically, be much less productive than I could be 🤷🏼‍♀️

Not particularly easy, and there is no real straightforward route for adults to retrain. First there is two years at college and take the initial C&G exams in electro-technology and electrical installation and the regulations course, then you need to find someone to apprentice under and learn the practical hands on part.

If you intend to be domestic, then you can usually fly solo after about 5 years total. If like me you want to end up commercial its probably nearer 10 years before you become really good at all the installation methods, fault finding, repair etc...

I don't do much driving, I work freelance for 2 large comprehensive schools and the local hospital, those three customers keep me constantly busy, I have a cupboard at each stocked with tools and often just walk in - occasionally do a bit of domestic to keep my hand in, but don't like it as its dirty work, commercial is much cleaner.

@taxguru I agree and admire what you've done. But does it mean for every say three programmers or database people companies had in the past, they might only need one of those people now with all the extra speed and efficiency AI brings?

Yes, I agree for new builds etc and modular office/school/hospitals, industrial buildings and "pre-fab" homes, but computers and AI can't repair/improve/renovate the existing building stock already in place. Yes, it will be massive when it comes to building new buildings in the future - we're already seeing pre-built buildings that are just assembled on site, and that will only grow and then get taken over by AI. But we're a VERY long away from being able to get a robot to go into someone's house and replace the plumbing system or re-wire it or wallpaper a room etc. It'll take 2 or 3 generations for there to be a "critical mass" of new building having been built by AI and robots capable of being repaired/maintained by AI/robots. Yes, there'll be lots of retrofits into the older housing stock, but someone needs to take out the old equipment and put in the new equipment that can be self-maintained or designed for robot maintenance. Robots work well with standardisation - if all houses on an estate are identical (or one of a handful of options), all with identical equipment installed, all with standardised/identical cable and pipework runs, etc then, and only, then, will you have robots popping it to replace a faulty light bulb etc - obviously much easier if it's a computer controlled "smart" house as there'd be no physical controls, i.e. no light switches, no boiler controls, etc as it would all be done via apps, but "someone" (person not a robot) has to take out the old stuff and put in the new, before a robot/AI can swing into action. Come back in, say, 50-100 years and we may be close to needing fewer "hands on" people in constructions, maintence, driving, vehicle mechanics, etc., but it aint happening any time soon because of the legacy buildings, legacy roads, legacy vehicles etc that will take decades away before there's a "critical" mass of robot built buildings, electric self driving vehicles etc. Yes, we can see the future, but it's not going to happen as quickly as people think it will.

Foreign students -I don’t think they are immediately without visas if they can find a job after graduating or completing their masters - competing for jobs anywhere in the country.

I don't know about programmers as I'm not one, and never needed to engage one. I'm just a self taught user of computers. Over my 40+ years of working life, I've just gone with the flow as regards computers and software, as an accountant. It's always been a "tool" for my day job rather than a job in itself. I'm only interested in the output, i.e. the services I give my clients. I've only been using AI for a few months, but it's no under-estimate to say it's transformed the services I can offer my client, which are accountancy related services, not computing or programming. Clients don't care how I produce it, but they're willing to pay more for greater detail, greater insights/analysis, better graphical representations, etc which is now affordable for them as I can produce it all quickly whereas only a year ago, they'd have baulked at the cost of my time to produce the greater detail/reports/graphs so there simply wasn't a need (basic supply and demand price elasticity etc). It was "good enough" for them for the price point they were willing to pay, Now they get a whole new product for a slightly higher price, that takes me less time to produce. Everyone's a winner. It would never have been financially viable for me nor the client to engage a programmer to do it, nor buy expensive bespoke/specialist software to do it. I have the accountancy/financial skills and experience, clients have the business/entreprenneurial/management skills - what was missing was programming skills, which is the gap now filled by AI!

Smart controls are still problematic, we are currently in the process of removing the automated BMS (building management system) from a secondary school built 10 years ago, because it causes so many issues and is no longer supported and installing old style, analogue thermostats and programmers which are easier to operate and repair and have a working life of 30 to 40 years.

In the process I have caught the bug and replaced my hive with an analogue programmer and thermostat!

Works out as £14.50 an hour...it's not that bad for something that you don't have to have a degree or any major responsibility.

Maybe expectations are too high.

@taxguru you're confusing AI and automation/robotics. Houses won't be built by AI, unless you count very basic functionality such as object detection as AI. They will be built by industrial automation processes that have been standard in manufacturing for decades - it's just that construction has lagged far behind, partially due to the availability of cheap labour, and the fact that in the UK actual construction costs are only a small part of housing due to very high land prices.

You're certainly correct about fitting and maintenance (plumbing, electrical systems etc) - that is something that is extremely hard to robotise. But I think that the demand for brickies, plasterers, carpenters, and roofers in domestic construction will plummet once automated and modular building catches on.

@Mielikki If you were advising a bunch of 40+ MNers who have previously worked white collar jobs where to look for new jobs/income sources in a declining economy, what would you suggest? Asking for a friend 😎

Some options discussed by PP's in this thread:
*Keep applying for jobs but it's a numbers game. Don't spend too long finessing applications, just blip them out there at a rate (and hopefully eventually get something after about a year of trying)
*Retrain (but there are significant costs and barriers to entry and we also need to watch out for the robots and automation coming for housebuilding further down the track although not perhaps in our working lifetime) (NB @taxguru suggested for govt to invest more in adult education and training which is a good policy idea)
*Incorporate AI into your existing job practices and processes (this is also a good idea);
*Coast in the job/industry you're in until retirement even if it's really boring and you would prefer to be more productive
*One PP mentioned "create your own job"
(Did I miss any out?)

@bobajob1 I have no idea. I honestly think it will require a complete readjustment of how society and economic systems work. Maybe automation and AI and nuclear fusion will lead us to a post-scarcity world but there will be massive social upheaval along the way, exacerbated by geopolitical upheavals and climate change-induced migration. It's going to be a rocky few decades.

I turned to contracting because I wasn't getting a look in for permanent positions (likewise I have bags of excellent experience in my chosen profession). Application after application. I got my CV reviewed and was told it was spot on and a matter of time before I'd get snapped up. Not even an interview.

I got active on LinkedIn and a former colleague recommended me for a contracting position. It wasn't a perfect fit (lower level, big commute), but it was a foot in the door again at least and I'm beginning to prove my worth so there are more opportunities coming.

I had an interview for a permanent role (different sector) a few weeks ago, thought I'd done really well. Didn't get it. I'd researched, practiced, written notes to prompt me for examples, did everything by the book. That's the only interview I've had in 18 months (other than my contracting interview, which was pretty light touch).

I've heard this a lot from others in my profession. Places are hiring, but then pulling the jobs at the last minute. You have to jump through ever more hoops and stages for little reward at the end of it. AI is used by most companies now due to volume of applications, which means that a human isn't even seeing your CV at the first stage. Even lower chance of success for remote roles, for which there are often hundreds of applications.

@Mielikki
Oh gosh that sounds very apocalyptic!
Perhaps the careers advice from this picture is: ??
*MNers to get in on the act with robotics and automation and nuclear fusion (as well as AI)?
*MNers in the defence industry
*if you live in a less-climate-change-affected country become a border guard or migration agent 🙁

Expectations too high!? My first basic admin role had a salary of £17k in 2006!

Years ago (20+) I wanted to retrain as a SW. The DF of the lad I was seeing at the time had retrained as a mature student in this field and was very high up in his career when I met him.

Lost my job and I was late teens/early 20s and living at home, I started an Access course. I really enjoyed it and was good at the work. Problem was, for uni entry to do a DipSW, you had to have (in most cases) done over 1000 hours of voluntary work. And, IIRC, it had to be with the people you wanted to work with. So if you wanted to work in child protection, they wouldn’t accept voluntary work done with elderly people.

Unfortunately, I had to give up as I had to work 2 part time jobs so I could study and just didn’t have the time or opportunity to do any voluntary work as well.

On another note, people always mention apprenticeships but whenever I’ve looked, there just aren’t any available in my local area. I had thought of retraining and financing from our savings, as a beauty therapist/MUA but that field is completely saturated here, there just wouldn’t be enough clients to make it work.

My two friends and I applied for an apprenticeship with Border Force a couple of years ago. All of us had experience in enforcement roles and dealing with people in difficult and sensitive situations. My friends didn’t even get an interview, I got one; awful, pre-recorded questions that you film yourself answering, no human contact at all. I didn’t get a job. We’ve all tried again since and nothing.

I do really worry about AI and robotics. I think we are all including our Government behind the curve. I have heard that software engineers are struggling to find work as AI can code now. And as someone said it doesn't have to code really well just adequately which means it can replace a lot of workers.

My idea on how to try and help this economy is to set up that British fund Reeves kept talking about and "borrow" at 0% interest a shit load of money off the Royal family plus proceeds of a wealth tax (yes some will leave but others won't) to invest in British industry. In return the Royal family can feel like they are helping rather than being useless show ponies and the super rich can feel less worried that we will turn on them with pitch forks. Everyone is happy 😂. At this point I no longer know whether I am being serious or not.

I think ageism plays a large part too. I secured roles fairly into easily in my 20's despite having little confidence, but job hunting in my 50's is a different matter. It's soul destroying tbh.

@Itsenough4now my personal view is we need to invest heavily into ‘free’ training ( with no effects on UC) into jobs that will always need a human touch - well at least far more- be that HGV driving, health, teaching, social work, construction/surveying , plumbing, engineering - yes AI will touch most things- but some more than others.

I would also encourage anyone who has teens to not push them into going to UNI for very non specific courses not aimed at careers unless they are more than happy to acquire significant debt and possibly never work in anything related.