To have thought carbon monoxide has a smell?!

[Aghhhk]

I thought when you smell gas that was carbon monoxide… am I wrong?

Nope.

Also s byproduct of fermentation. It will sit as a layer at the bottom of a vat. After pumping out, the first thing inside needs to be a CO monitor.

This is why following safety SOP’s that seem ridiculous is so important. Our wine industry knew and had procedures but still someone thought “she’ll be right “ and that was the last thought he had.

Carbon monoxide will kill you or make you very ill.
Gas will cause explosions.
they are both dangerous

In what context have you come across carbon monoxide without being aware that it doesn't have a smell?

Unless you're some kind of scientist or chemistry teacher surely the only time you ever hear of it is when someone dies by it or you're advised to get a detector because of how lethal it and odourless it is

Just been teaching this to year 11.

Odorless, colourless, completely undetectable unless you have an alarm. You can’t add a smell to it as it’s not supposed to be there - it’s made by burning carbon/hydrocarbon fuels in insufficient oxygen. In the UK it’s usually a dodgy boiler, in some countries it can be poorly maintained oil generators, or burning coals in closed spaces without ventilation.

Incomplete combustion also forms soot so black marks or yellow flames are indicative of a risk of CO. (But ok with adequate ventilation don’t panic about your candles).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zq3797h/revision/5

@Aghhhk are you Philomena Cunk? As you are definitely coming across that way 😂

Clearly having the nickname "the silent killer" hasn't made it obvious enough

It is dangerous if it ignites! CO has no smell and you can't add a smell as it's a byproduct rather than piped gas which is a product

I remember reading about a couple who, because it was raining, cooked a meal inside their tent with a disposable barbecue.

Their bodies were found by fellow campers who were concerned that they did not appear the next day. The inquest found carbon monoxide poisoning.

Sorry to clarify we have just moved to new house with a fire that comes on by pressing a remote. It also has a gas supply. I’ve read online that it doesn’t have ‘combustible properties’ so this is a safer fire than one burning logs etc. But my thought was if it is using gas it is still dangerous for carbon monoxide? @Groundhogday2025 @TickingAlongNicely @Solasum @B1indEye @WhatGoesHere sorry don’t know if I’ve tagged everyone not sure how to use this

Carbon monoxide is a byproduct, it’s not something that’s intended to happen so how on earth would they give it a smell? We’re not making it. It’s not something we have agency over.

As to where the smell from gas goes, so why doesn’t carbon monoxide smell - the state of the natural gas is changed when we use it, so the smell wouldn’t stick around. Think of it as food smelling different after you cook it.

When we use natural gas for fuel, it meets oxygen and creates carbon dioxide and water. Carbon Monoxide happens by dangerous accident when there is incomplete combustion, meaning the meeting of the oxygen and the natural gas goes wrong and we end up with carbon MONoxide, as in one oxygen, instead of carbon DIoxide as in two oxygens.

So, normally we have natural gas -CH4, which is one carbon and 4 hydrogens. CHHHH.

When using natural gas, we have CHHHH and oxygen - O2. OO, and to burn successfully it needs twice as much oxygen, so that’s 2 O2. OOOO.

So the total elements involved if you just lay them all out are CHHHHOOOO.

In normal gas use, we get left with
Carbon dioxide: CO2, or COO, and 2 lots of water: H2O, H2O. Or HHO HHO. Job done, all elements accounted for. All safe.

If the adding up of all the elements doesn’t happen properly then that’s when we get carbon monoxide. The oxygen doesn’t properly attach to the carbon creating CO instead of COO, and that’s what is harmful.

@TaggieO thank you! I posted above about this new fire we have which has an electric remote but also a gas supply. The manual suggests it’s safer than fires that burn wood as it’s electric but it also has a gas supply so I’m confused, couldn’t this still create carbon monoxide?

In that case you need a CO detector in your home. Preferably hooked up to the mains, but get 2 if battery operated

Any gas supply or open fire in your home needs CO detector as blocked chimneys or gas appliances not burning correctly can cause CO

Yes @Aghhhk if it uses gas there's a risk of carbon monoxide. Everyone with a gas supply or solid fuel burner in their home should have a CO monitor. Landlords here are legally required to ensure rented properties have CO alarms in every room with a fixed combustion appliance.

a gas fire that isn’t working properly or is improperly vented can create CO, which is why you should have gas appliances checked and serviced and get a CO alarm.

If you have just bought the house and the vendor didn’t give you evidence of regular servicing you should get it done. If it’s rented the landlord should be getting it done, ask them.

No one would be allowed to sell an appliance that was in any way going to produce dangerous levels of CO in normal operation but you have a detector for the unlikely event that it malfunctions in some way just as you have smoke alarms

You're overthinking it

what is the fire burning though? It doesn’t seem to burn anything, we can’t open the door and it’s just fake logs in there

If anything is using gas as fuel it has the capacity to create carbon monoxide. Other fossil fuels also can create carbon monoxide - coal, for example too. You absolutely should have a carbon monoxide detector. In fact, people who live in terraced houses or semis should have them even if they have no gas whatsoever as you never know what your neighbours have.

@TaggieO what is this fire burning? It has fixed logs that aren’t real. I think this is where I am getting confused

Gas!

It will be the gas burning if it has a gas supply.

Fires don’t just burn - they need fuel. And if it’s a real fire then it absolutely does have combustible properties- combustion is burning. If the fire is burning there is combustion. I don’t mean to treat you like you’re stupid, but is it producing heat when it’s on? It’s not just a fire effect?

Carbon monoxide detectors are cheap as chips. Just get one. Not sure why you’re going down this rabbit hole when you could ease your worries for £10-20

I think you have misunderstood the ‘safer’ aspect. I imagine it is a gas fire that has an electric ignition that can be switched on remotely. It is probably being sold as safer than a wood fire because burning wood and other solid fuels usually creates pollutants. This is different to a fire creating carbon monoxide. Any fire, including gas fires, can produce carbon monoxide if it is not well ventilated.