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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To send an employee to a client even though she refuses because of her religion?

640 replies

GelatinousDynamo · 15/03/2025 13:30

I have a new employee in my team, she is a devout Muslim. She's been with us since January and there were no issues so far, she's getting along well with everyone and her performance was fine. I sent her an email on Friday afternoon to say that our client has now (finally) prepared all necessary documents and that she should go there and go over everything with them one day next week. She wrote me back today that she can't do that because only men work in the department and she can't spend the day alone with strange men (because of her religion).

AIBU to insist that she does her job and goes there or would that be religious discrimination? She shares an office with a male colleague and has never complained about it. She's the first devout Muslim I've ever had on my team and I honestly have no experience at all with such issues. She's the only one who has the necessary experience and isn't already scheduled elsewhere.

OP posts:
CandidHedgehog · 15/03/2025 17:08

saraclara · 15/03/2025 17:02

Also, I note the OP hasn’t said what her employer did with the male Muslim employees who refused to work with female managers.

Yes she has. He was let go.

Edited

Sorry, I missed that.

In which case, that may be what is needed here. I assume HR have the process of how to get rid of someone for this reason documented.

However, it is essential the OP follow HR advice to the letter in documenting why the accommodation asked for isn’t reasonable.

This may well end up before a tribunal and being able to prove good faith attempts to address the request are likely to be the difference between winning and losing.

MrsSunshine2b · 15/03/2025 17:09

You are required by law to make reasonable adjustments, so if you consider this unreasonable, you need to be able to explain why. It seems a bit far-fetched that there is no other time or other person who could possibly do this job. What if she was on long term sick, what would your plan be?

ThatsNotMyTeen · 15/03/2025 17:09

There is a risk of indirect religion and belief discrimination but as long as you can justify the request as a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim then you can issue her an instruction to do it, and if she doesn’t she risks being disciplined or dismissed.

MissHollysDolly · 15/03/2025 17:09

pistaacioaquestion · 15/03/2025 13:51

@OldCottageGreenhouseI get your point but the analogy doesn’t quite work. A devout Christian would have no reason to not attend a meeting with someone gay/trans. They may possibly object to attending a wedding of a gay or trans couple due to their religion, but there’s nothing to say they can’t attend a business meeting with anyone gay/trans. And I say this as a devout Catholic. Anyone using Christianity as an excuse for not doing a business meeting for this reason would be missing the message of “judge not lest you yourself be judged”. Sorry went off on a tangent there, but I do appreciate you acknowledging how Christian employees are often not given the same acceptance as employees of other faiths.

I used to work at an agency with a devout Christian, who, when a very well know gay rights organisation came on board as a client absolutely point blank refused to work on their account. So yeah, they can.

Diningtableornot · 15/03/2025 17:10

saraclara · 15/03/2025 17:04

@Diningtableornot the employee is going to the client's offices. OP can hardly demand that the client furnish one of their female staff to chaperone. They may not even have anyone female anyway.

No, they may not. I was suggesting that this was one possibility that could be explored. There's no need for demanding and suing, but a bit of a brainstorm for a solution that might suit everyone could bear fruit.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 15/03/2025 17:10

MrsSunshine2b · 15/03/2025 17:09

You are required by law to make reasonable adjustments, so if you consider this unreasonable, you need to be able to explain why. It seems a bit far-fetched that there is no other time or other person who could possibly do this job. What if she was on long term sick, what would your plan be?

You are only required by law to make reasonable adjustments to avoid disability discrimination. The duty to make reasonable adjustments doesn’t apply to any of the other protected characteristics

Bleeky · 15/03/2025 17:13

“Chaperone” … I don’t think that employer should take responsibility for providing whatever being a “chaperone” entails. Chaperone must be female, cannot leave employee alone at any time with men. Etc. it’s too risky. Imagine if chaperone went to loo, or fell ill and had to leave.

I suggested earlier, send her an email confirming that SHE turned down the assignment because of the client workplace demographics. In the email, let her know that it’s her decision & in future, it will be her decision.
You can’t provide or find clients to meet her needs alone. No one should be making extra expense of staff to be there for her.

She can put 2+2 together herself regarding “good assignments”. She herself is choosing.

Don’t exclude her, let her self exclude, in writing.

If she complains about not getting good assignments, you can let her know you always give her a choice. She turns them down.

She herself can figure out her career long term.

SerendipityJane · 15/03/2025 17:13

Diningtableornot · 15/03/2025 17:10

No, they may not. I was suggesting that this was one possibility that could be explored. There's no need for demanding and suing, but a bit of a brainstorm for a solution that might suit everyone could bear fruit.

Alterantively the client could provide a female identifying chaperone ?

Who knew modern life could be such fun ?

Oblomov25 · 15/03/2025 17:15

Surely employer only needs to prove that they have considered and tried to find a 'reasonable' adjustment.

CandidHedgehog · 15/03/2025 17:17

ThatsNotMyTeen · 15/03/2025 17:10

You are only required by law to make reasonable adjustments to avoid disability discrimination. The duty to make reasonable adjustments doesn’t apply to any of the other protected characteristics

It may not be specifically called that but it’s covered by the legislation relating to indirect discrimination. You are absolutely required to make reasonable adjustments to avoid indirect discrimination.

See p8 at the link.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/religion-or-belief-guide-to-the-law.pdf

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/religion-or-belief-guide-to-the-law.pdf

CandidHedgehog · 15/03/2025 17:18

Oblomov25 · 15/03/2025 17:15

Surely employer only needs to prove that they have considered and tried to find a 'reasonable' adjustment.

Yes.

VanillaVein · 15/03/2025 17:20

So many women on here who instead of posting absolute shite on the internet should really spend time educating themselves on the law and rights. You might learn something.

StMarie4me · 15/03/2025 17:21

Onlyonekenobe · 15/03/2025 13:36

If her religion precludes her from doing her job, she needs to find another job imo.

Yes this is a reasonable way of looking at it. Like the same employee getting a job in a sandwich shop then refusing to sell bacon/sausage/ ham butties. No reasonable adjustment at all can be made. They simply can’t do the job.

Ketchupbroc · 15/03/2025 17:22

VanillaVein · 15/03/2025 17:20

So many women on here who instead of posting absolute shite on the internet should really spend time educating themselves on the law and rights. You might learn something.

Love it when a poster rides in on their stallion and gives the thread a piece of their mind whilst contributing bugger all itself to the matter at hand! 😂

KnottyAuty · 15/03/2025 17:23

Diningtableornot · 15/03/2025 17:00

I didn't mean that the client should pay someone to sit there during the meeting. But if there happens to be a woman in the next door office who would be happy to swap desks for the morning, why not ask her to do it? If there isn't, they can say no. Personally I would be delighted to do this kind of thing to support a Muslim woman in the workplace.

Do you work in a male dominated industry?
If you feel totally secure it’s easy to do things like this. But if you’re a minority this sort of thing costs you in social capital - so not everyone is in a position to do this. Shame it’s that way but that’s my experience of it

outerspacepotato · 15/03/2025 17:26

OP, say you refuse to provide accomodation to her religious beliefs in this and try to let her go.

What will you do if she comes back and says you asked her to do something she told you violated her religious principles and that her work until that point had been fine?

Will HR back you?

Does this look targeted?

Think about that before you refuse accomodations.

Diningtableornot · 15/03/2025 17:29

KnottyAuty · 15/03/2025 17:23

Do you work in a male dominated industry?
If you feel totally secure it’s easy to do things like this. But if you’re a minority this sort of thing costs you in social capital - so not everyone is in a position to do this. Shame it’s that way but that’s my experience of it

I think I must have been lucky to have worked in sectors where people will try to accommodate the wishes and needs of colleagues and contacts. They may not always manage it, but the starting point would be 'what can we do to make this possible?' rather than 'how can we get rid of this person'. A Muslim colleague was given a cupboard to use as a prayer room so he could pray at the required times. Someone with a complicated visual impairment was allowed not to go to IT-based courses but to learn the content in other ways. People helped each other.

Bailamosse · 15/03/2025 17:33

Diningtableornot · 15/03/2025 17:00

I didn't mean that the client should pay someone to sit there during the meeting. But if there happens to be a woman in the next door office who would be happy to swap desks for the morning, why not ask her to do it? If there isn't, they can say no. Personally I would be delighted to do this kind of thing to support a Muslim woman in the workplace.

And I would absolutely not. Women should be able to fully participate in work without needing babysat for fairytale reasons. I would do absolutely nothing to support this.

UnhappyAndYouKnowIt · 15/03/2025 17:37

I've had a colleague who was devout Muslim, (young, unmarried) and similarly unable to be alone, unchaperoned with men.

It wasn't a massive issue because there was always at least one woman nearby. If she was in an office with a man, the door would be open. If we had to send her to an area with only men, we would have just sent someone else along for propriety.

SerendipityJane · 15/03/2025 17:46

Ketchupbroc · 15/03/2025 17:22

Love it when a poster rides in on their stallion and gives the thread a piece of their mind whilst contributing bugger all itself to the matter at hand! 😂

Probably identifying as a man for a day then.

AnnoyedAsAllHeck · 15/03/2025 17:47

OldCottageGreenhouse · 15/03/2025 13:43

Imagine if it was a devout Christian employee saying they can’t attend a meeting with a gay/trans client, because of their religion. Would you be saying the same? In that case both side would have a protected characteristic. Employee citing religious reasons and a client who’s a protected characteristic

That is a good point, and wonder what the protocol would be in that case.

I think it all can get quite confusing and frustrating.

Perhaps job descriptions need to be more detailed and covered before people are hired. "Would you have trouble working one on one with (insert possibility here) at their home, if needed?"

Flossflower · 15/03/2025 17:48

It is not only Muslims that need chaperoning. Years ago when HMRC did routine inspections they came to see me. The tax inspector was a man and he was obliged to bring a woman with him because I was a lone female.
My elderly aunt was having a downstairs bathroom built. Although the work was private it was being done by a company that worked with the local authority and the health visitor had recommended them. The architect came with a woman as he didn’t know I would be there and he said this was company policy.

LoveWine123 · 15/03/2025 17:48

GelatinousDynamo · 15/03/2025 16:13

It's a bit early to say, really. She has good technical knowledge and clever ideas, but still needs experience. This was her chance to gain it, I really thought of this project as an opportunity for her to develop.

To answer another question: She knows that she'll only be dealing with men, because her and I have met with this client before. She did not raise it as a possible issue at that time, btw. And asking the client to accommodate her is a) ridiculous, we'll never get hired by them again if we try that, and b) impossible, it's really only men we're working with there. And yes, it has to be on site.

Has she offered any solutions?

outerspacepotato · 15/03/2025 17:50

Diningtableornot · 15/03/2025 17:29

I think I must have been lucky to have worked in sectors where people will try to accommodate the wishes and needs of colleagues and contacts. They may not always manage it, but the starting point would be 'what can we do to make this possible?' rather than 'how can we get rid of this person'. A Muslim colleague was given a cupboard to use as a prayer room so he could pray at the required times. Someone with a complicated visual impairment was allowed not to go to IT-based courses but to learn the content in other ways. People helped each other.

Accomodations are a bridge.

Delphinium20 · 15/03/2025 17:50

AlternativeView · 15/03/2025 16:18

@FeministUnderTheCatriarchy actually people who areu Muslim believe you are born it so there's no choice

Just because they believe it, doesn't make it true. Some people believe the Earth is flat.

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