A religion one here -aibu to find my work colleagues comments offensive

[bagpuss90]

Hope this is allowed - a work colleague and I were discussing the dreadful case in the news this week about the crossbow killer who killed three people . She’s a committed Christian which I respect. I said how much my heart broke for the poor husband and father and his surviving daughter and how I could never ever forgive the guy who carried out the murders. She said that you can hate the sins but forgive the sinner. She also said that we don’t know the full story - wtf??? We don’t know what the killers girlfriend did?!?! It got quite heated- her saying that if the father didn’t forgive the killer - he couldn’t be forgiven by god . I get that this is what she believes and I have to respect that . I told her I thought we would have to agree to disagree . But despite respecting a persons religion- please tell me aibu to find her comments offensive ?

Ignore and rise above it. It’s a fairytale.

I would find her comments very insensitive. I’m a Christian. I believe in forgiveness but forgiveness means different things to different people. You can’t force someone to forgive something like that or to stand in judgment if they can’t. I think there’s an issue with women who are being abused in the church being told to forgive continually- it’s oppressive. I see forgiveness as placing something into gods hands and trusting his mercy and judgment. It certainly doesn’t mean saying that it’s okay or understandable. It doesn’t mean continuing a relationship with an abusive person. It doesn’t mean letting someone off the hook. I think it’s quite misunderstood.

How can you be offended by what she said? Nothing she said was personal to you. Nothing was directed at you. You may find her opinions objectionable. But to take offence is really quite a leap of self-importance on your part.

I personally find the Christian belief that you have to forgive quite cruel. It’s asking too much of some people. I am not offended by it though.

I am not familiar with this crime and I don’t understand the girlfriend comments. Did he murder her? If so, yes, her comment there is offensive. .

But if by ‘ we don’t know the whole story’ she meant we don’t know this person’s background or what led him to this crime ( trauma, abuse, mental illness) so can view him with more compassion whilst still believing he deserves to be judged by the law, then thats a reasonable perspective which is not offensive.

Their comments are wild, and at best misguided. But posting this on a public forum where there’s a high risk the family might see these comments is quite insulting to the family and the memory of those murdered. Particularly given the papers often pick up on things on MN. I think you should consider whether more damage is done by holding these views around the water cooler, or publishing them on a public forum.

Personally, I don’t respect people’s religious beliefs. So long as they keep their silly delusions to themselves, I won’t criticise or mock them - but that is simply good manners, not respect. Once they air their beliefs, however, everything changes. Some religious people will say the vilest, foulest things (that those who have abortions are going to hell, or that birth control should be banned, even in the slums of Africa and South America, etc), yet whinge and complain when others ridicule those beliefs. It’s not acceptable.

Still, you can’t debate a religious person. It’s like trying to argue with someone on the looney left, or a member of the woke cult. They’re not interested in debate. And they’re not open to new ideas. They already know the truth.

You are unreasonable to be offended.
You disagree, vehemently, but no need to take offence.

So presumably if the killer repents and goes to confession and all that nonsense, he goes to heaven. Whereas the father, a completely innocent and loving man, goes to hell for not forgiving the man who destroyed his life.

Also, I wonder if she could explain why a creator God would create a world in which such things could happen. I suppose she’d reply that without free will morality would have no meaning. But no living thing asked for this test. Nothing asked to be created/born. And why bother in the first place? Why create a world in which such things could happen at all? Why create an animal with free will? What was the point? Does God get some kind of sadistic pleasure out of seeing us torture one another (and ourselves)? He creates us sick and twisted and then gives us free will and then punishes us for acting badly. The whole thing is INSANE.

I’m a practising Christian (by no means a perfect one). She focus on forgiveness in her own life, not preach it at people in horrific situations she doesn’t know the full details of.

Around 84% of the world’s population are religious and vary widely in doctrine and ethics. That’s an ignorant comment.

So long as they keep their silly delusions to themselves, I won’t criticise or mock them -

You just did, @Dappy777 . Your whole post was criticism and mockery.

I'm not a Christian but I know and love several people that are. And I absolutely have debated with some, with both of us being respectful and listening to each other, each time.

Negative generalisations, when there's a huge spectrum of personalities and strengths of belief among religious people, are unhelpful and judgemental..

Still, you can’t debate a religious person. It’s like trying to argue with someone on the looney left, or a member of the woke cult. They’re not interested in debate. And they’re not open to new ideas. They already know the truth.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I’m religious and have changed my mind about various things over the years, and still haven’t made my mind up about some issues.

Some religions and denominations are hugely shaped by debate: look at Judaism. Debating is hardwired into rabbinical history. So many historical Jewish texts are records of debates between different rabbis.

I think she’s bonkers, and it’s nothing to do with her religion, she’s just using an interpretation of her religious teachings to justify her bizarre view that a bereaved family should forgive a triple murderer and rapist. Or she’s so devoid of critical thinking that she can’t form an opinion and just parrots whatever she thinks the bible says.

Btw, any religion can be twisted in any manner to justify opposing views. I was once part of a bible study group where we debated capital punishment, and the group leader was in favour, while others were against. It was interesting and eye opening to see them all use the same religious teachings to justify their world view.

"her saying that if the father didn’t forgive the killer - he couldn’t be forgiven by god"

She overstepped the mark here imo. She's trying to impose her religious beliefs onto someonelse, a man who is going through the major trauma of having had his wife and two of his three daughters murdered. Whether he can forgive the perpetrator is his call to make, not hers.
I've no idea what she meant by not knowing the whole story but her take just sounds batshit crazy.

I wouldn't be offended but I'd make a mental note to limit future conversation topics with her to beige subjects such as the weather.

I’m a practicing catholic and I firmly believe that there are somethings that are so terrible that they should not be forgiven. I kind of think that to do so lessons the severity of what they’ve done in some way. If that makes sense. “You’ve killed my entire family in a brutal way” but it’s ok, I forgive you. I don’t get it.

As someone who was deeply religious for a decade, in my opinion her religion plays a part in her comments here; Christianity can still be misogynistic in my experience hence why she is judging the female victims for possibly provoking the perpetrator. I try and keep religious people out of my life if I see misogyny in them, unfortunately it's just part of it.

I’m with you OP - even though I am a believer - I really really cannot understand why anyone on this earth chooses to kill or rape - I do not care if there is a “reason” it is wrong and even the Bible acknowledges that it’s wrong.

Like others have said in this case just agree to disagree.

I believe in forgiveness (as bloody difficult as it is to do sometimes) I think it’s important to forgive for your own sake, so that you don’t fester in bitterness, and I really really admire those that have lost loved ones through brutal crimes who then turn the pain into some kind of mission to help others - that really takes bravery and courage and something in you has to see a bigger picture.

Forgiven - but never forgotten I guess.

I think with this crime the evidence is too obvious to ignore. In other circumstances there are 2 sides to a story.

Like many religious people, she’s narrow minded and confused.

I’d not give her silly comments another thought.

She's trying to make excuses for the killer and put the blame on the victim. That's offensive and just shows how religion can distort people's reasoning.

I agree. Rotting in jail for life is what he deserves and I would never forgive. I would find her comments offensive and totally inappropriate.

I disagree, I’m very much not easily offended but to say that John Hunt won’t be forgiven by god unless he forgives the man who murdered his wife and two of his daughters is hugely offensive, as is ‘we don’t know the full story’.

Anyone who speaks about religion as fact, talks about the judgement of their ‘god figure’ as if it’s a real thing which affects everyone, is really offensive. How dare you makes such assumptions and judgements, especially when those beliefs are preached by an organisation with ongoing proven practice of condoning sexual abuse and protecting abusers in the name of that god.

Why do you think that?

I’d probably have replied “oh, that’s a different way of seeing it, but I expect he’ll have the shit kicked out of him in prison on a daily basis, which would be God’s will, right?”

And then I’d not ever speak of religion with her again.

I don’t remember anything in the bible about victim blaming. That’s not her religion, that’s her prejudice talking. If she were just a friend, fine, but it’s not a suitable topic for a workplace. Survivors of SA and DV shouldn’t have to potentially listen to that when they are at work.

Wow. What an ignorant post.

Yes, some people are nutters and some of them express that through cultural narratives that happen to be religious but globally, people of all faiths are responsible for a significant amount of the world’s charitable, pastoral and aid work. It’s their faith in action. What do you do to make the world a better place?

To the op I would say that as a Christian I believe forgiveness can only be given by the injured party. We cannot forgive a murderer. Only the victim’s family can do that. And lots do…as the pp said, sometimes letting go of hate is a cathartic way to honour the life of a loved one rather than living with anger and bitterness. This is deeply personal though, and can sometimes take a lifetime.

We also know that people who murder often have had fucked up lives. Watch any documentary about prisoners and death row inmates, they all have stories of horrendous child abuse and neglect. I’m not saying that that absolves them of their crimes, but society has a responsibility to ensure children are not abused into warped and damaged adults.

The work colleague was probably trying to see a bigger picture and be compassionate in that. My advice would be instead of getting ‘offended’ by other people’s opinions, seek to understand them.