Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is just a but unfair?

116 replies

Arraminta · 15/03/2025 11:33

DD is currently on a long train journey, her ticket was £100 and she has a student railcard. Unfortunately she left the physical railcard at home, but has a close up photo of it on her phone. She also has her driving licence with her as proof of ID and her online banking shows her purchase of the ticket.

But the conductor has ignored all of the above and has charged her the full £175 for her ticket. So she's now £275 out of pocket and really upset. I guess it's a salutary lesson for her and she'll never forget her railcard again, but wondering if there's anyway she can appeal? Even if she just recoups the original £100 she spent?

OP posts:
Headabovetheparapets · 15/03/2025 18:37

Assuming her original ticket wasn’t used she should be able to apply for a refund on the unused ticket. Suggest going to app/station she bought the ticket from & see what options are offered.

Original poster
Arraminta · 15/03/2025 18:40

Suns1nE · 15/03/2025 16:42

I work on board and photos of railcards are a high risk for fraud. Basic computer skills can change the name and photo. Same with screen shots of the digital one. We can’t accept them because they can be altered. The online one has a moving hologram which helps us identify the validity.

It could have been worse it could have been a revenue inspector who would have issued a fine for having the wrong ticket which would have been an additional £100 on top of the price of the new ticket.

in terms of “luck” with charges it depends on the route, how busy the train is and staffing levels. If it’s a busy train on a Saturday afternoon with stops every 8-9 there is a chance that the staff on board might not get to you or are going to be more lenient because it’s better to check a whole carriage of people have tickets vs 10 people have tickets and the right railcard.

Thank you, it's useful to get the insider info. The train was very busy, packed with very loud rugby supporters. But apparently the conductor chose to ignore all of them and focus on the quiet and polite young woman on her own. Funny that?

OP posts:
Original poster
Arraminta · 15/03/2025 18:42

Headabovetheparapets · 15/03/2025 18:37

Assuming her original ticket wasn’t used she should be able to apply for a refund on the unused ticket. Suggest going to app/station she bought the ticket from & see what options are offered.

Good idea, thank you I have just messaged her to let her know that.

OP posts:
jamfactory · 15/03/2025 18:43

'If you forget your Railcard you will either be required to buy a new ticket or you may on certain services be liable for a Penalty Fare. However, a train company will normally allow you to claim back this extra expense on the first occasion in each year where this happens.'

I just found this on the FAQs page, might be worth a read: www.16-25railcard.co.uk/help/faqs/what-happens-if-i-dont-have-my-railcard-with-me-and-i-have-to-buy-a-new-ticket-or-pay-a-penalty-fare/

AFrankExchangeofViews · 15/03/2025 18:43

I've noticed these creeps specifically target children and young people. I guess they are easy pickings for them, adults would argue back and make a fuss, whereas they can bully children. The way our train companies behave is repulsive, and I have nothing but contempt for anyone who works for them.

Original poster
Arraminta · 15/03/2025 18:46

Just spoken to DD and it gets worse. Apparently he scanned her original ticket so she can't claim it was unused? Really annoying.

OP posts:
Original poster
Arraminta · 15/03/2025 18:47

jamfactory · 15/03/2025 18:43

'If you forget your Railcard you will either be required to buy a new ticket or you may on certain services be liable for a Penalty Fare. However, a train company will normally allow you to claim back this extra expense on the first occasion in each year where this happens.'

I just found this on the FAQs page, might be worth a read: www.16-25railcard.co.uk/help/faqs/what-happens-if-i-dont-have-my-railcard-with-me-and-i-have-to-buy-a-new-ticket-or-pay-a-penalty-fare/

That's brilliant, thank you. I have forwarded it to her now.

OP posts:
Original poster
Arraminta · 15/03/2025 18:50

AFrankExchangeofViews · 15/03/2025 18:43

I've noticed these creeps specifically target children and young people. I guess they are easy pickings for them, adults would argue back and make a fuss, whereas they can bully children. The way our train companies behave is repulsive, and I have nothing but contempt for anyone who works for them.

I agree. DD is nearly 21 but she's very quiet and hates confrontation, so she just quickly paid up.

OP posts:
HelenWheels · 15/03/2025 18:51

they are strict
if you have a digital one for example, if you have no charge, it wont be accepted

HelenWheels · 15/03/2025 18:52

AFrankExchangeofViews · 15/03/2025 18:43

I've noticed these creeps specifically target children and young people. I guess they are easy pickings for them, adults would argue back and make a fuss, whereas they can bully children. The way our train companies behave is repulsive, and I have nothing but contempt for anyone who works for them.

absolutely agree
not children, but young people
easy targets

Suns1nE · 15/03/2025 19:58

Arraminta · 15/03/2025 18:46

Just spoken to DD and it gets worse. Apparently he scanned her original ticket so she can't claim it was unused? Really annoying.

It will have been scanned but the “clip” will have been rejected so it will show as unused when they interrogate it digitally.

I think you said she was heading to Cardiff. I know they had a full revenue team with BTP in place at the station because of the rugby. The revenue teams are far harsher than any conductor will be (conductor powers are limited). They most likely did leave the rowdy groups for police and revenue to deal with because nobody is going to want to take on groups unless absolutely necessary. However, although it may not seem it they probably did your daughter a favour and saved her a fine at the station because, on arrival, she had the correct ticket.

Runnersandtoms · 15/03/2025 20:04

ThelmaDinkley · 15/03/2025 11:44

I would appeal and see what they say. I’ve been on journeys with dd and they’ve not even asked to see it as well so there’s definitely a lack of consistency.

I've had a network Railcard for years and have never ever been asked to show it by ticket inspectors. My dd had a 16-17 one and then a 16-25 one and in all the times of using it only got asked once. So it does seem this Inspector was being a jobsworth.

As others have said you can only have a physical card OR digital. I'd always recommend choosing digital to anyone getting a new one as you're unlikely to travel without your phone.

Original poster
Arraminta · 15/03/2025 20:19

Suns1nE · 15/03/2025 19:58

It will have been scanned but the “clip” will have been rejected so it will show as unused when they interrogate it digitally.

I think you said she was heading to Cardiff. I know they had a full revenue team with BTP in place at the station because of the rugby. The revenue teams are far harsher than any conductor will be (conductor powers are limited). They most likely did leave the rowdy groups for police and revenue to deal with because nobody is going to want to take on groups unless absolutely necessary. However, although it may not seem it they probably did your daughter a favour and saved her a fine at the station because, on arrival, she had the correct ticket.

Show quote history

Thank you, I will let her know about the 'clip' being rejected even though it was scanned.

OP posts:
Original poster
Arraminta · 15/03/2025 20:20

Runnersandtoms · 15/03/2025 20:04

I've had a network Railcard for years and have never ever been asked to show it by ticket inspectors. My dd had a 16-17 one and then a 16-25 one and in all the times of using it only got asked once. So it does seem this Inspector was being a jobsworth.

As others have said you can only have a physical card OR digital. I'd always recommend choosing digital to anyone getting a new one as you're unlikely to travel without your phone.

Show quote history

She's definitely getting the digital version when she renews.

OP posts:
olesia66 · 15/03/2025 20:34

AFrankExchangeofViews · 15/03/2025 18:43

I've noticed these creeps specifically target children and young people. I guess they are easy pickings for them, adults would argue back and make a fuss, whereas they can bully children. The way our train companies behave is repulsive, and I have nothing but contempt for anyone who works for them.

You're calling people doing their job 'creeps'?

hcee19 · 16/03/2025 18:15

At the train station my ds was forced to pay for an adult ticket. The conductor did not believe his age, he showed him his school lanyard, which had his photograph on it etc. My ds then was , 6ft 7" , explained to the conductor this happened alot due to his height. The conductor took his name and address and three weeks later he git a letter, saying he was being fined £100, plus the correct train fare as an adult.
I wrote a letter back, ( back then they wouldn't accept e-mails) . I was furious and said it's disgusting the conductor accused him of fraud and that he wasn't travelling alone, he was with school friends who all vouched for him. Very long story short, we recieved an apologetic letter with a £ 150 travel voucher....

Vynalbob · 16/03/2025 19:11

It's up to the individual jobs worth / ticket person (I was one long ago and wouldn't have charged extra)....I believe there's still away to appeal so go for it 👍

Ihatelittlefriendsusan · 16/03/2025 19:13

My family railcard is a digital one that is held in a phone app...perhaps one for her to sign up for when she renews?

But does seem a bit mean of the conductor.

I would perhaps appeal.it at the train station

CarmellaSopranosKitchen · 16/03/2025 19:17

Did you know some of the conductors get bonus related pay and a % of the money for 'catching out' people with the wrong tickets/without travel cards etc. This is why they are like it. I actually think it's pretty mean spirited. She actually had a ticket and a card. In some cases purchasing tickets can be complex. I once bought a ticket was assured it was fine to travel on certain trains - and on my way back an over zealous guard/ticket man tried to tell me it wasn't valid. I wasn't having it as I had especially checked - finally (after a battle) he said - Oh it is a Friday er yes they are valid then. The man next to me - said good for you. Most people would have bought a new ticket. The rules arent always clear and there should be some humanity for those forgetting their passes. I'm an assertive person in midlife - but if I was a student I could have been bullied. Yes the case above in the example was technically wrong, but they should have had some empathy.

Thecatandme · 16/03/2025 19:26

jamfactory · 15/03/2025 18:43

'If you forget your Railcard you will either be required to buy a new ticket or you may on certain services be liable for a Penalty Fare. However, a train company will normally allow you to claim back this extra expense on the first occasion in each year where this happens.'

I just found this on the FAQs page, might be worth a read: www.16-25railcard.co.uk/help/faqs/what-happens-if-i-dont-have-my-railcard-with-me-and-i-have-to-buy-a-new-ticket-or-pay-a-penalty-fare/

This

And this forum is really good if your daughter needs any help appealing

https://www.railforums.co.uk

Ariana12 · 16/03/2025 20:10

Absolutely get her to appeal. Set out the circs clearly and attach a photo of the photo ( if you see what I mean). I'm pretty confident she'll get something back, even if not a full rebate. The people they're trying to catch out are the ones who are fiddling not the ones who forgot. It's a LOT of money. Good luck.

TiredAH · 16/03/2025 20:11

Expensive mistake to make, but policy is there.
Photos of ID has never been a valid proof of identity before, let alone now with all the AI and how easy a photograph can be tampered with.
I would perhaps try to appeal if DD is willing to do it, but feels more like lesson learned to me

cardboardvillage · 16/03/2025 20:26

It would have been cheaper for her
to purchase a new railcard digitally

if the conductor was nice, he would have suggested that

Kag13 · 16/03/2025 20:54

Arraminta · 15/03/2025 11:41

Sadly no she doesn't which surprises me as she loves her Apps.

Show quote history

Surely if she downloads the Trainline app her railcard will be there (they are all stored by the Trainline) and she can use it to support an appeal?
I have a senior railcard which is only on the app and showing it is fine. The app will prove she had the railcard at the time of travel.

TianasBayou · 16/03/2025 21:04

@Kag13it is either/or with railcards, physical or digital but not both.