White people moving to colonized countries is kind of gross

[ScorpioKent]

Following on from a post I just read where I didn't want to change the conversation from one about homesickness I was thinking about if I could move there.

And I felt really uncomfortable about it for the following reasons and I am probably being unreasonable but I can't shake the discomfort of the thought.

I couldn't live in a country being white, knowing that my people enslaved and subjugated and dispossessed the native population. People I know that moved from UK to Australia eventually pick up the...they have so much given to them, why don't they try harder, they are all wasters/ alcoholic/ crims...narrative about aboriginals after a while. Lots of doublethink and denial of history needed to get to that mindset. Of course, America suffering under the psychological guilt of doing similar to their indigenous people. Plus transatlantic slavery.

It's no wonder, psychologically, the country is built on guilt, denial, paranoia, right to arms, and a continued denigration of the indigenous to justify theft of land. If you have committed a crime on a people the national psyche has to be built on lack of empathy and dehumanization in the first place.

And then years pass, subsequent people move there. Are those feelings there at all?

If you want to talk about slavery you need to go back further in history, to the Romans and Egyptians.

So you'll never leave Europe?

“My people” are human beings.

I think that we can't take credit or blame for things that happened before we were born. We can only do what's right to treat people decently now.

Those people are not currently suffering from the injustice though, surely you see the difference?

I don't consider people who kept slaves "my people" whatever colour they are.

Do you think the Italians, Scandinavians or French worry about this when moving to UK. Or the Spanish or Portuguese when moving to South America?

Shouldn't the French (Normans), Romans, or those from Viking stock also feel guilty if they decide to settle here?
I agree that the white people attitudes towards native peoples in all the countries we colonised is shit, particularly in Oz, and that the newly emigrated soon develop the same attitudes towards native peoples as the 'local' whites.
However, wherever we are we all need to be making a bit more of an effort to stop racism everywhere.
Of course, there are those who are not like this, but ime, it's a thing for many.

I couldn't live in a country being white, knowing that my people enslaved and subjugated and dispossessed the native population

In what way are you responsible for “your people’s” actions? Why would you feel guilty about how they behaved? This is a very peculiar way to feel and comes across as a bit try-hard.

So you personally take responsibility for the actions of all people the same colour as you throughout the whole of history? I don’t and I think that is a slightly ridiculous stance to take. Anyone can move anywhere (subject to visa issues etc) these days and keeping “their” and “our” countries (or areas of countries) isn’t helpful to eradicating modern day racism.

Are you Maori?

This is the wrong platform for this 😆

Bringing up Roman and Egyptian slavery is pretty crass really. Of course slavery has existed for thousands of years and there has been invasion and colonisation throughout history.

But the colonisation of continents for labour and materials to power the industrial revolution still affects us today. Much inherited wealth derives from slavery. Ingrained and systemic racism derives from slavery.

I don't agree with the OP entirely, but I don't think we can minimise the impact of the slavery that was the bedrock of the prosperity of European nations.

I can't feel guilty for something done hundreds of years before I was born.

I worry more about people who think it's okay to hand over money to places like Dubai who CURRENTLY have an appaling human rights record.

I'm not talking about historical occurrences, 1000 years ago plus ! Many indigenous people in Australia and America don't feel colonization is a far off history, but a current situation. It's hard to pretend it hasn't impacted and devastated them when they are still very presently experiencing inequalities.
I was saying psychologically I would find it hard to reconcile that and settle on stolen land.

What have the Romans ever done for us?

(Shameless Life of Brian reference)

No. I'm white English, hence why I wrote the post.

“ If you have committed a crime on a people”

But I haven’t. I’m English but I don’t feel personally responsible for the Irish famine or the Highland clearances either.

To me the idea that white people are responsible for all bad things white people have done is the other side of the argument that the UK is only for white people. How could we divide up the world on the basis of who was indigenous - even if that was desirable what about people of mixed heritage, which is probably nearly all of us if we go back far enough.

If British people move to Australia and become racist against the aboriginal people (or were before they moved there) that’s a different issue about their actual behaviour.

I'm also not suggesting people can't live happy lives there and work towards a nation equal to all. I was just wondering how people dealt with it, moving there. Quite a number that I know shocked me by eventually sharing the negative and frankly racist views of the indigenous peoples. I love these people so I tried not to judge them and supposed that being in that country eventually led to that kind of psyche.

I come from one of those colonised countries and I welcome them as long as they are respectful. But you, please stay away and bugger off.

The world is a very big place and you’ve picked two countries where there is an indigenous population that is still treated differently

how about someone moving to Malawi or Malaysia?

You’re a bit bonkers OP. All land is ‘stolen land’. Should we get an apology from the Danes for all the raping and pillaging? You moving somewhere makes not a jot of difference to anyone really if you’re a decent sort of human.

Yes, and the appalling amount of slavery going on in plain sight, in the UK right now. People don't seem to be as vocal about that.

Pretty much all the land in the UK is 'stolen' off someone. Royals gave away countryside for service to King and Country. Developers have acquired land forcing people to sell their houses, as have successive governments (hs2, etc). Russia has annexed crimea, and the rest of the world seems to think he can keep it if it means peace...
Wars have been fought over land. Marriages have been forced over land.
You may need to consider Mars before Musk claims it!

It's an interesting debate to have, like all debates on here. Conversation leads to greater understanding, surely.