Single women with or without

[Braveneworld]

I've just finished reading Sheryl Sandberg's book and she said "the single biggest factor in a woman's career is who she chooses as a man or partner". It really resonated with me.

I never thought about it like this but I've seen so many of my female friends with amazing degrees and masters and PhDs whose careers have stalled once meeting their male partner. Yet their partner's doesn't, even if the woman was the higher earner before kids.

Are there any people out there who think they've excelled in their career cos they don't have a partner? Or because they took gender equity seriously within discussions?

I can't believe it's just because "women earn less so they go part time after kids". In the book and research it points to, actually women earn just as much as men until kids. So the idea they earn less and it's a functional decision rather than gender doesn't seem to stack.

I want kids eventually but not without equity and sacrificing my career. What does this look like or what doesn't it look like?

I think more accurately it would be “who she chooses to be the father of her children”. Because I think motherhood is what stalls a woman’s career in many cases, often if she isn’t the main breadwinner or an equal breadwinner. Gos forbid if a man should ask for flexible working etc. “His work don’t allow it” I was told by a pregnant colleague recently whose DH is “in finance”. “No one does it.” And so she’s planning for her own good career to be stalled.

I think there's a falicy in the idea you can focus on both. Having a career and having children are both important but you really need to decide which is more important. Usually its mum who puts children first. We went the other way and I focused on my career while DH was happy to step back and be dad. He was the one who saw their first steps, heard their first words, did the bulk of potty training all the sort of things you associate with mum. I still feel I missed out on a lot of our children's life. Was it worth it? Financially probably but it's him the girls go to not me, I feel I lost out on being mum.

I actually earned slightly higher than my STBXH it dropped significantly after we met, married had kids etc. we separated two years ago and I am now in an amazing new career. What you have said really resonates!

I think it’s also about how much women stand up for themselves. My DH, when dating when we were pretty young, had quite traditional assumptions about what life would look like post children. He assumed I’d go part time and he’d stay full time. I categorically told him that I would always be working full time and if one of us working part time with kids was importantly to him then he could do it. He wasn’t, initially, very happy with that, but he adjusted his mindset. He ended up doing 6 months parental leave and also does flexi-time to ensure he parents properly (and he has a ‘big job’ in finance on 6-figures where so many men claim it ‘isn’t possible’ 🙄)

A lot of women need to have higher standards and louder voices.

I don’t know anyone whose career has stalled on meeting a partner but yes after kids definitely. If you chose a partner who will share care of children equally and even go part time then your career is less likely to stall. DH and I were equal in pay and then after kids I let my career plateau for a while; maybe if he went part time that wouldn’t have happened but equally I was ok with taking those sacrifices to be able to be there more for my children

Why did it drop after you met?

Because he was controlling and abusive and did everything within his power to prevent me from having any sort of independence, whether it be financial or emotional.

Yes, I’m sure there’s a lot of this for women, unfortunately. Sorry to hear that x

ExDH wanted me to be a high earner but also expected that I should do all of childcare, emotional load etc!
ExDP was threatened by my earning potential and career aspirations and constantly tried to throw spanner’s in the works
I’ve been much happier, achieved more as a single female even whilst bringing up 2 DC

You can't have it all and the reality is women generally in almost all cases do the bulk of the childcare and emotional labour and stuff at home. Looking at my friends, most of them earn more than their partners but still do the traditional mother role on top. The husbands are by and large fairly useless. They just can't do it. Yes there will be the very occasional man that does 'his fair share' - but I don't know any of them. Op if you want children then be realistic about it.

I think there's stats that say women who earn more than their partners do even MORE of the traditional stuff in the house - probably to make up for how emasculated the men feel.

I don't think it's helpful to pretend both sexes can do everything equally. They can't and don't and in most cases won't. Let's stop pretending - then so many women might stop being so damn disappointed.

If you are going to choose to marry the man you happen to be with around thirty and compromise on that quality of man because you want children please don't be surprised by how miserable you are when you are trying and failing to do everything well. You can't. You have to make a choice.

Me @Braveneworld . It became clear quite early in my 20s that I would not be able to achieve my ambitions with a man hanging round my neck. Three very nice longish term boyfriends over the course of my 20s & 30s who were all kind and ostensibly feminists, but working late, them not being the top of my list and frankly, me earning more then them, ended up in whinging, guilt tripping and resentment. Not to say there wouldn’t have been a guy out there who wouldn’t have been supportive in the way I needed (I.e. how old fashioned housewives supported their husbands), but of all the women I know even those with “nice” husbands are not all in behind their wives in the way the women would have been had the situation been reversed.

im afraid I’m rather jaded now and think most men are fundamentally a bit selfish, but you pay your money & take your choice

The thing is that having children actually does affect women more and differently from men. It just does. For many women, once they have children, their career ambition changes and their priorities shift just as much as their body changes. It’s not inevitable, but it is common. And that is okay. Women are allowed to have a maternal instinct. So of course the statistics will reflect that. And if you go on to have children, that may be your experience too. It’s not just about external factors.