To think some people are really snobby about tradespeople?

[Loveheart13]

I’ve noticed that a lot of people really look down on tradespeople/jobs with practical skills.

Dh works in a trade and he earns very well. Obviously I don’t talk about it. I’ve noticed that people make a lot of assumptions that it’s poorly paid, that you must be a bit thick.

I’ve got friends ds and work colleagues who think that university is the only way. I know someone whose nearly adult child is not very academic at all but they are determined to push on as they are certain that anything less than a degree is complete failure.

Why are people so snobby about it?

Yes people seem to have no clue about some of these tradespeople jobs that go on behind the scenes to keep things running.

Tradespeople don’t just work in people’s homes either.

I don't think people look down on them as much as they are wary because often work isn't done very well and needs repair soon after or causes more damage. The cost of having any manual labour done at the moment is astronomical and the risk of it making issues worse is what often gives trades people a bad name, if they have done bad work.

There really isn't a correlation between cost and quality. Some of our most expensive jobs (where we've deliberately chosen a mid-quote or higher-quote) firm or person, have turned out to be the worst jobs for one reason or another. Local showroom and reputable looking firms are often the worst because they have the "image" but then sub contract the work to the cheapest guy they can find. And of course, the customer has no control over the subbies used by such firms as few have their own permanent full time staff. That happened when we had a boiler replaced - again reputable local firm with a showroom, but the subbie they sent was appalling and after we'd complained, the showroom's owner admitted it was the first time they'd used that guy and wouldn't be using him again. Thanks a bunch for making us his guinea-pigs!

We just had a lot of work done at home and there's only the plasterer I would recommend to friends. He was the most expensive quote we had but he came highly recommend and was very professional, tidy, turned up at 8:30am and left at 3:30pm every day, was respectful in our home (didn't swear, make a mess, upset the neighbours etc). He just did what he said he would do.

Conversely I have just had to take a load of the builders' equipment to the recycling centre because after chasing them multiple times over the last 6 months they still didn't come and get it. Ladders, rubber mats, buckets etc. When they were here they swore loudly and constantly for all the neighbours to hear. They left mess and rubbish everywhere. They kept disappearing for days at a time with no communication. On the days they did turn up, it was often gone 11am and they would never stay after 4pm, usually before 3pm. Always an hour for lunch regardless of how little time they'd been on site. The job dragged on for weeks and weeks beyond their estimate and we had multiple instances of delays due to them ordering the wrong materials.

Out of 4 trades we used, only 1 was up to scratch. And that's the ones we actually engaged. Over half of the trades who said they would come and quote for us just didn't turn up to the appointment. My friend just had a full renovation at her house and ended up taking two trades to court (and winning). She says she wouldn't recommend anybody she used. These experiences are not rare.

I think it's definitely true that people are snobby about tradespeople but fucking hell, as an industry they don't help themselves and it must be very damaging to the ones who are professional, reliable and competent. In my experience they are in the minority.

Nail on the head. It's not because they get dirty, it's because too many of them are incompetent or don't respect your home. Good ones really are like gold dust.

What I find with tradespeople isn’t that they are thick. Not by a long shot. & they earn a really excellent living, which should be obvious to anyone with a brain by how much you have to pay them for a days work!

What I will say is finding one with business acumen is like gold dust. They seem to really struggle with managing their workload, bookkeeping, people skills. Not all of course, but enough that it’s a breath of fresh air to meet one who has their shit together beyond just being really skilled in their trade.

Someone could be a really skilled hairdresser but if they were always late for your appointment, never answered their phone when your tried to make appointment, don’t turn up for your appointment, push your appointment back by a week, miscalculated the cost of the service, didn’t order the dye in on time for your appointment etc you’d start to think “FFS you’re an idiot” regardless of how skilled a hairdresser they are.

I’m not really talking about people who’ve had bad experiences though.

I’m talking about people who assume that it’s an unskilled, low paid job that any old idiot can do.

People who think it’s a complete failure of a young person doesn’t go to university.

I'm pretty sure that the plumber, electrician and plaster who have recently completed work on my degree/masters educated DS's 1st house are all out earning him. Neither he nor I look down on tradespeople as we frequently use them to do jobs we would in no way be able to tackle. We are lucky enough to live in an area where it's pretty easy to get recommendations and weed out the cowboys though!
And I have never been talked down to by tradesmen in my house - and I've dealt with many. Kwik fit and garages though - well that's a,different story!

Well if you are looking at having work done and as you say aren't skilled enough to do the work, how can you check the guy doing it has done good work before? Word of mouth. Even then, just because they fixed one person's issue no 2 houses are the same. The market is flooded with cowboys charging the earth with little experience or qualifications.

But don't you think that the two are inextricably linked? The industry having a reputation for poor workmanship, bad time keeping, unreliability etc surely impacts people's perception of those who work within it and how skilled they are.

I get that most of us have or know someone that's had a bad experience with a tradesperson but I'd argue many of us have had bad experiences with managers and yet we don't brand all of them as incompetent.

I don’t know anyone who is snobby about tradespeople because they are tradespeople. Thinking an individual is incompetent or a arsehole is a different matter - and people may feel the same about an individual doctor or tax advisor. I find it hard to believe that it’s general consensus that tradespeople are poorly paid or financially unsuccessful as a class compared to the professions let alone compared to people working in transport, retail, hospitality, care etc. I know a zillion people who have had bad experiences with tradespeople ranging from the minor such as blatant lies about timescales, start dates, communication and general lack of straightforwardness (just fecking say if the job is too big/small. Is a pita, you don’t want to do it instead of pretending you are going to put a quote together), through misogyny, poor quality or careless work through criminal behaviour and sexual assault. You get poor behaviour in “the professions” too but often having a boss, or regulator or professional body puts a curb on things. If had good and bad experiences with tradespeople. I’ve also had good and bad experiences with people in retail, service industries, healthcare etc, not sure what is so special about the trades that we are all supposed to fall over ourselves claiming how marvellous they all are and be envious of their finances.

There is nothing wrong with academic success. “All knowledge is precious whether or not it serves the slightest human use”. Ditto the arts or political engagement or any kind of outward facing mindset. It’s bizarre to me that you think people only value education due to snobbery rather than because it has an inherent value.

Yes there was a thread a few weeks ago the Op was asking whst people thought a fully qualified mechanic would be earning as her son had just qualified
The amount of people who thought it would be minium wage or just over was enlightening, I think some posters cant grasp the difference with a qualified trades person and non skilled job.

I think some people are snobby about any job that doesn't require a university degree. People certainly were when I used to tell them my job.
We have had the odd cowboy but generally the tradespeople I use have been highly skilled and do a good job but maybe that's because I treat them with respect.
I don't see any point in going to university if it's going to make you miserable.

Because managing a business where you’re on the tools and doing all the admin and buying materials and being slated for not doing a full day IS hard. I’m a lawyer who works long hours but I do not work the sort of hours my electrician DP does.

My DP needs to go down to 4 days a week to be able to keep up with the admin. Imagine what the snobs on here would think of a trades person only working a 4-days week!

I think there needs to be some sort of rating system that is better than Check A Trade, similar to ratings by public health for restaurants. The council should give all builders a grade and then you know what you are paying for. I don't want another hi-vis bully boy standing at my door trying to make me hand over thousands to re-tarmac my drive just because he is in the area. I want to be able to expect value from handing over my savings. If you regulate better you will get a better opinion forming.

I think there might be a bit of jealousy there.
They know they need those people and as they don't feel like they are 'like them' or uni educated, middle class etc, they are a bit afraid.
They feel like they don't want to be in a situation where someone they perceived as less educated actually has much more knowledge.

Assuming your talking about the threads sometimes on here where people vent about the tradesmen shitting in their toilet*, being loud etc.

Well I'm lower down the pyramid of good jobs (right at the bottom) then a tradesman (so no snobbery here) is and I've got to agree some of them just are kinda brutish

• Edited to say leaving his shit skids unashamedly all up the toilet bowl

My lawyer ex-boss was horrified to learn that builder DH went to the same private school his kids are currently at. He said “I bet his dad is pissed off he wasted all that money on him”.

I couldn’t be bothered to tell him his dad is also a builder and sent all 4 of his kids to private school and lives an extremely nice life. DH also earns very well but is also a really decent bloke and does a lot of free charity work for the community when he gets chance.

Not all builders are cowboys - in fact, in my experience most aren’t and are smart, intelligent men.

@kirinm yes, I expect a lot just gave a passion and natural ability for the job.

But along with it goes all of the admin, travelling, planning jobs and materials, finance. Often having to fix up the previous persons shoddy work or customers who have let things get so bad it takes longer.

If your business admin takes you an additional 40 hours a week something has gone badly wrong

And dealing with customers who want the minimal amount of work as possible done to avoid costs. My DP has vowed never to work for landlords again because they are absolute cheapskates who would rather leave things dangerous than pay someone to fix things properly. He also knows when he’s about to get fucked over and have someone refuse to pay him. They’re normally the people who ask him to make sure his quote is ‘reasonable’ as they’ve got a small budget.

That's the same with any "one man" sole trader type of business, whether a tradesman, cafe owners, shop keeper, guest house, web designer, accountant/solicitor, surveyor etc., if they don't have support staff and have to do it all themselves. Being an employee is completely different in whatever trade/profession as you have a support team around you.

Theyre not just clocking off to go home for a nap.
One of ours left daily at 3pm to go to the pub! DAILY, on the dot.

We've just spent 3yrs renovating a derelict property and used 20+ trades in that time. All but 1 were brilliant and I always recommend them on to friends/family etc.

My only issues have been the mess. We had a massive skip, I put bins all over the place, yet still found cigarette butts and wrappers, cans of energy drink, crips packets shoved into brick holes or in the end of scaffolding poles, smashed glass in plant pots etc! The electrician would snip off the end of wires and these were left all over the floor.

We had a new fence installed and the entire length had easy access, no plants, except for 1 patch, 50cm x 50cm. Despite me asking them to step around these plants- yes, they were ALL trampled and died.

I previously worked in peoples homes. If I'd left someones used pads, or lunch wrappers on the floor or cut their hair and left all the hair on the floor- I'd have been fired!
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I think tradesmen are actually very useful and handy people, and actually they are far more useful to know than say "financial advisors" in real terms.

BUT and this is a big BUT, so many of them fall into the laddy lad stereotype of smoking, swearing and being crude about women, and being all drunk at the weekend. If so many were not like this then it would be different. Meeting one not like this is by far the exception than the rule.