To feel this is just torturous?

[OffWorkandWorried]

I’m currently off work with anxiety/depression (work related). I’ve got 20 weeks left paid and then I’ll default to SSP (which I can’t afford to be on, so I need to sort something job wise before that point)
I need to leave my job because the moment I go back off sick leave, I’ll be on a PIP and then managed out/dismissed.

I apply for about 20-30 jobs a day. Anything and everything which matches my skills and which I could afford to do (ie the salary would cover my outgoings). I’m getting nowhere - and even when I wasn’t off sick, I was still getting knock backs. Occasionally I get shortlisted for interviews and usually get a rejection on the basis that another candidate just pipped me to the post (usually an internal candidate). I’m never given any other useful feedback aside from that.

I had an interview this week and I am fairly sure there were two internal candidates. The interview felt like a box ticking exercise tbh.

If I was dismissed, and had to apply for UC etc, I’d lose my flat - it wouldn’t cover my rent. I feel like I am fighting against the tide and every job applications feels like I am fighting for my life.

No idea what I would do tbh. I can’t stay with my family / friends so…where would that leave me?

It just feels like a slog. Mainly posting for traffic, sorry.

Take a break from applying for jobs for a couple of weeks and try to improve your mental state- it's hard to interview well for a job when you're not feeling on top form. Is there anyone you worked with in a previous job who you could talk to about your strengths to buoy you up a bit and remind you what you should be focusing on in interviews? If you are unwell you can't think straight so you need to try to get at least a bit better before you interview again.

Unless I’ve missed something with the turn2us website - even with HB and council tax relief, my rent would only be partially covered and I’d need to make the short fall up elsewhere.

They will need to replace me and want me out of there. If I was them, I’d be paying me off and looking to fill my role, frankly.

A lot of my previous colleagues (who remain my friends) have done this. My interview this week was helpful for this actually as it reminded me that I am - actually - highly skilled.

It sounds like you’re getting interviews but not further… could you find a coach to help
your performance..?
People may pick up on any desperation or lack of confidence… it’s important to come across as happy and confident (even if you don’t feel it deep down). I know as I’ve been there!
Sometime before a interview I’ll find a YouTube video for confidence hypnosis! It really works.

Not the point of the thread but I just don't understand how they have a fucking leg to stand on, when you have made yourself ill doing their job at their company, with telling you that you have no way back from a PIP.

If they tell you this, how is this not prejudicial? And if your condition is caused directly by this particular job, surely it's clear to them that literally confirming to you that you don't have a job to come back to, is appalling behaviour?

If they managed this situation differently, you could legitimately rest and recover, work through your PIP and be fulfilling your role?

The injustice of this situation is sickening and I'd be saying all of the above to them.

On a more practical note, I'm so sorry to hear about your living situation. I don't know if it helps, but if it comes to it, on places like Spare Room, I don't think you need large deposits and you don't normally need credit checks to rent a room, at least you never used to. Also, if your income does drop, you can claim UC for housing costs as a single childless person if you are renting a room in a shared house or a studio, they just don't cover whole properties for single people.

I'm sure it won't come to it, but as least there is a little reassurance of stability in the absolute worst case scenario that you can't keep up with your rent.

I really wish you all the best!

@OffWorkandWorried what about applying for care or bank care jobs or in the hospital as and HcA.
you can do night shift or weekend work which bumps the money up

https://www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs?Workplace=remote

The situation is disgusting. It’s also stupid because they want me out, I want out and yet…

the role and workload have been insane for a long time - I thought it was a few months but my bf reminded me that I was crying about awful management and their expectations last EASTER. I am exhausted and burnt out from it all.

The way the PIP conversation happened was that my manager (who is lovely but useless) confirmed that when I’m back, I’ll be on a PIP. I asked them if this was just a precursor to me being managed out. They condoned this is what senior management wanted. All informal and nothing confirmed formally but I knew it was coming because the senior manager responsible for all this loves a bit of bus throwing.
The relationship has totally broken down on both sides.

Re room: I’d pass credit checks just not employment ones at the moment surely? If I’m on long term sick? Idk. A room is around £150 less than a flat where I am (I know!) so there isn’t much in it difference wise.

Your GP has signed you off...but have they given you anything to help you ? Medication etc?

Are you socialising/ have a good support network?

Are you eating well, exercising?

You will get through this- and you will thrive again. I'm a firm believer of self care when overwhelmed with shitty toxic workplaces.

Do you have a spare room in your flat you can rent out? (Long shot with Surrey prices I know ..!!!)

They suggested medication - I’ve been off and on it in one form or another since I was 12. The last lot I was on (venlafaxine) was good for my anxiety but the side effects were just too much. It’s something I am reconsidering.

I am in therapy.

V good local support network, my self care (diet) hasn’t been great but is better this week ironically. I’m exercising and out of the house daily.

It’s a studio, so not possible unfortunately

I agree.
there have been a lot of posts this week about disability benefits and how people need to go back to work. However, the reality is that many employers are like OPs employer and have no tolerance for people getting ill/taking sick leave.
good luck with the job hunting OP

Hi,
In a similar position to you but have been off a lot longer! Was adamant not going back, but in hindsight I'm cutting my nose to spite my face as job works for me. Will be going back, and have had occupational health assessment. The assessor was actually very helpful and validated my worries. At the end of the day your employer has to be very careful otherwise you can take them to tribunal for constructive dismissal. You are better going back and being sacked as opposed to leaving your job from a benefits point of view. They have to show reasonable adjustments after an absence.
I've been looking at other jobs but have a young child and hours/commute/holiday allowance suit me so well and if honest have only had one interview I didn't get and was for 2k less a year and would cost more in childcare!
Looking to have counselling before I go back to get over the way I've been treated. The job market seems tough at the moment, been with my employer nearly 15 years so all this linked in etc is new to me and wasn't finding any roles matching my benefits package. Honestly don't worry about going back. I had it out with my manager/staff and they are all pleased I'm coming back and supportive of my reasons for being off.

Thanks everyone. You have all confirmed what my union and friends have said which is: stop job hunting for a while and reassess, but mostly, focus on recovery. Which I’m about to do now by going to bed with my audio book and falling asleep before midnight.

@DahliaBlooming
Well said, what great advice.

@OffWorkandWorried
Would you consider temp work through an agency? I had to relocate after Lockdown and went into a major panic about no work, eventually I signed on with an agency and have had ongoing work since.

"I certainly couldn't have sold myself in an interview"

This. The pressure nowadays to sell yourself to the employer, to answer all the right questions, to present yourself as the perfect applicant, and all the time being so unsure of yourself, especially if you have low mood, etc, it's almost like a career in itself to seek work.
I am edging towards the end of my working life, and feel that if a prospective employer has my CV, they either want to hire me or not, I can not be bothered re the interview process and the questions.

Are you in teaching OP ?

A pip is a supportive process to get you back up to an acceptable level of performance. Would you agree you need to be on a pip ? Did you record your manager saying you won’t pass the pip ?!

UC doesn't pay enough to cover your rent and council tax.

My son is on UC and he only gets 40% of his Council tax paid and half his rent.
They calculate rent with the Local housing allowance which is way below market rate.
It's very low for single people. You have to make up the shortfall

I would suggest considering returning to your current job (not straight away, give yourself a decent recovery period). Engage with the performance management process, ask what you can do to meet their goals but ask for an occupational health assessment to support your return to work also. When you have the occupational health assessment request that your mental health difficulties be treated as a disability then ask for reasonable adjustments. That might mean things like caseload or timescales or anything else relevant. Once your mental health is regarded as a disability by occupational health (get them to put this in the report that they would provide to your manager) then your organisation has to tread extremely carefully about any disciplinary process and if you were then managed out it could possibly be seen as constructive dismissal and you could take them to tribunal.
These are just my thoughts. If you consider this route check it out with your union.
But in the meantime I think you need to allow yourself a break from applying for jobs and thinking about work. Take some time to heal..do other things - go for walks, listen to music, make nice food, see friends. Maybe consider the medication also.
Sending you positivity and strength. As they say, this too shall pass xx

It sounds like your current situation isn’t working for you, in any sense. You’re well and truly caught up in the rat race, having to do a job you hate just to pay to live. Life is too short for that bollocks, in my opinion. What kind of things are you passionate about? Could you find work or become self employed in that field?

I would say it’s time for a total reset, even though I know that’s scary. Move somewhere different, to a cheaper area, a house share if needs be, or find jobs which include accommodation eg housekeeping/nannying/holiday centres. If you can massively reduce your outgoings, you have more freedom about what you do for work and how much you work. I do self employed work of many different kinds - I do dog walking, pet sitting, run an online business selling antique items, I’m a self employed carer working with vulnerable teenagers, I help with people’s horses, I do ironing for a lovely family and also a bit of dog grooming. It’s all stuff I enjoy and life is varied and interesting. I am constantly having to turn work down because I’m so busy. If you want to make a different life happen, you can, but only you can make it happen.

You’ve got the time off on full pay as a buffer to formulate a plan, so you’ve got the luxury of a bit of headspace.

Hi OP

Sounds like you're having a rubbish time at the moment and it's terrible the way your employer is treating you.

You mention you have some debt. Are the repayments a lot? If you didn't have them could you manage on a lower salary? I'd highly recommend reaching out to your creditors and asking if you could pay a reduced amount each month until your circumstances change.

I find it so sad that there is little financial support out there for single people.

Job hunting is soul destroying at the best of times but if you are burnt out and your mental health is already suffering, it would feel even worse.

As others have said, take some actual sick time to re group and rest and hopefully this will give you space to come up with a plan of attack x

The amount OP has quoted in benefits sounds about right for a single person in Surrey and includew rent. Highly unlikely they'd get LCWRA as it looks like they're able to work, just not in their current workplace. UC would expect them to take any work, not work at a certain pay grade.

Financially, the best option is to return to work and see how the PIP plays out. Is there any scope to ask for reasonable adjustments to manage your health conditions? Maybe more working from home? Maybe fewer days?
Mentally, can you keep working through the process, let it play out even if you barely get back into work at all yet stay employed as long as possible?

What's the minimum earnings you need to pay the rent and bills?
When you are on SSP how far short will you be from meeting your bills?

Have you looked into debt advice? If you could get some kind of debt plan could you take a job with lower pay? Maybe address the debts while you take a break from the job hunting? This could include a mental health breathing space if appropriate. Do call one of the debt advice charities to see what's possible.

And, easier said than done I know, try not to worry about the future, whilst putting future-proofing plans in place. You are OK for the next four to six months.

OP you are missing the fact that you are actually getting interviews which is very promising. You also have the security of a job that pays you sick leave. Most employees receive just SSP when off for a week let alone for long term sickness.

You are not in a bad situation in terms of prospective work in the future, having time to secure something new and receiving income. I believe your depression, stress and anxiety is distorting your view which is totally understandable.

From an employment law perspective… If you have longstanding or recurrent depression this could amount to a disability (with stress and anxiety potentially being symptoms of exacerbation of your depression).

If you are then placed on a PIP because of disability related poor performance this is likely to amount to disability discrimination and would be good leverage to negotiate a decent Settlement Agreement.

I strongly suggest for any monthly fit note that, if your GP is willing, that they sign you off with ‘longstanding/pre-existing depression exacerbated by work related stress’ as this will make your employer’s HR department worry (if they are not idiots). Obviously your GP is not a puppet but if they are able and willing to write something like the above that will help you in the long term. Don’t get signed off for more than a month at a time, it is easier for an employer to dismiss if they receive a 3 month fit note than 3 separate fit notes of one month.

I suggest you speak with an employment solicitor who specialises in disability discrimination before you visit Occupational Health as if OH is able to confirm your depression pre-existed your performance issues and is the likely cause of the mistakes AND you were unsupported by your employer (which you can then frame as the cause of your ill health to deteriorate and led to your absence) it will be very hard for them to dismiss you for either the performance or absence issues without being on the hook for a disability discrimination claim (failure to make reasonable adjustments and discrimination arising from disability).

This is a good position for negotiating an exit package.

Obviously if your depression was not pre-existing the above is unlikely to apply.