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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to get cross at my dh for not telling his rascist father to shut the f**k up?

26 replies

tiredlady · 11/05/2008 23:18

My FIL is in his late seventies and has always had a bit of a Daily Mail attitude to foreigners. However in recent years this seems to have cranked up a gear (no doubt due to "all these polish and muslims in the country") When my FIL goes off on one of his rants, I try and put my point of view across ( bearing in mind that my parents are not British and I was not born in this country) but stop short of telling him that he is being totally fecking rascist and offensive. I feel my dh should do that - it's his father, and also I feel he should stand up for me. I would genuinely like to hear people's opinions. If you all think it's not at all my dhs responsibility to correct his father, then I will have no qualms whatsoever about bloody doing it myself

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IAteRosemaryConleyForBreakfast · 11/05/2008 23:21

YANBU, nobody should have to listen to or be subjected to racism, and yes, I would feel it was my DP's responsibility in your situation. But I doubt your FIL will be made to change his opinions and possibly your DH keeps quiet because it keeps the peace. Have you talked to your DP about how his dad makes you feel?

JeremyVile · 11/05/2008 23:23

I have a similar issue myself.
Have realised there is ot much point in offering a counter argument and also started to feel a bit like I was evangelising.
Personally, and I'm not usually one for letting things slide for the sake of an easy life, I would just leave him be.
Avoid these subjects, if they come up, change the topic or take it in a different direction.
He wont change his opinions but he'll likely get bored and stop going on about it in your presence.

edam · 11/05/2008 23:23

I do think dh ought to be standing up for you. But I also think you are fully entitled to tell the old racist where to shove his views.

wrinklytum · 11/05/2008 23:24

Oh I sympathise.My FIL is a racist T%%% and of similar age.I cringe and keep quiet if I go round to theirs. if hes in our house I do try and argue the toss but usually end up going elsewhere in the house before i am tempted to hit him over head with frying pan.We don't get on.

Original poster

tiredlady · 11/05/2008 23:25

My dh knows how I feel, knows his dad is out of order, but bascically can't confront him. They have a very cordial and polite relationship and no one in their family would ever confront anyone about anything. When his dad goes off one one, ny dh will roll his eyes and say " Daad, come on..honestly, what are you like?" then laugh. Oh I swear to God, it drives me fecking bonkers!!!!!

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NoBiggy · 11/05/2008 23:26

Maybe it's the same situation as with mil. I tried to argue with her once, dp said "don't bother, you might as well talk to a brick".

(Think I'd enjoy that more too.)

JeremyVile · 11/05/2008 23:30

It is ubfair to try to force your dh to confront your fil. He is probably not going to be around too much longer. Yes, his views are unacceptable and he is being an arse in spouting them to you but he is a very old man and your DHs father.
I f you feel the need to say something, do so but dont make your dh compromise his relationship with him.

Original poster

tiredlady · 11/05/2008 23:35

Jeremy vile - I do see what you mean, and if he was spouting any other unpleasant views, I would just take him on myself and not expect my dh to get involved. But my fil is basically saying that people like me shouldn't be allowed to live in this country - if someone was saying that about my dh I would stand up to them. I would feel a sense of outrage and of loyalty

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JeremyVile · 11/05/2008 23:42

Yes, I can see it must be infuriating and personally offensive.
I really do sympathise, having been on the receiving end of fils venom for years. Not the same, but he undermines me as a mother which is absolutely maddening.
DP does stand up for me and its been me who has discouraged him from cooling his relationship with fil.
But tbh if he didn't take a stand at all, I guess i'd feel pretty cheesed off myself.
Sorry you're going through this.

sunnydelight · 12/05/2008 04:51

I would expect my DH to stick up for me too, regardless of the issue. You don't have to be unpleasant to get your point across.

I once told my FIL (another Daily Mail reader), in the most reasonable tone, that I found what he was saying racist and offensive. He flipped and started yelling at me at which point DH told him to leave our house as there was no way he was going to put up with his father insulting me. Best thing he ever did - FIL stalked out, sulked for two weeks then when it was clear we weren't getting in touch made contact and apologised. He was a total pussycat from then on in.

I don't go along with the "make allowance for older people because they don't mean it" thing at all. I ran training courses in equality/diversity for years one of the most rewarding part of the job was to see older people who started the day thinking "this is a load of PC crap" leaving at the end of the day saying "I hadn't thought about it like that before".

NotQuiteCockney · 12/05/2008 07:23

Hmmm, I have some patience for the "make allowance" thing ... as long as children aren't within earshot, at which point all allowances evaporate.

Because they may well believe what the old racist is saying, and they'll certainly try repeating it.

MaryBS · 12/05/2008 07:34

Have you tried asking him whether he thinks YOU should leave the country? And if he says no, ask him what the difference is?

Troutpout · 12/05/2008 07:45

I'm with NCQ on this one. I would let my mum and dh's parents (very unlikely for them tbh) get away with the odd comment.
With my mum...i usually sort of wince and say 'you can't say that mum..it's offensive'. She realises as soon as she's said it. Usually it's fairly tame stuff like saying 'they're Asians..but they are really nice' or using the word 'coloured'
I am her only mixed race child btw...i think she forgets that i actually have brown skin too
However...if it was a racist rant...then i would have to eject that person from my house and if they didn't mend their ways then from my life.
And yes...i would expect dh to support/ back me up .

backfire · 12/05/2008 09:25

Unless an older person has dementia or a similar degenerative condition, why on earth is it OK not to expect them to change their views or at least not to express them in a way that's personally offensive ?

Original poster

tiredlady · 12/05/2008 10:23

Thankyou for your views everyone. I think I do have the right to expect dh to back me up, but maybe I should just deal with it myself. I might just warn dh that the next time fil starts I am going to tackle him and it's up to dh if he wants to support me or not. I think I shall also say that if he dares try to excuse his dads behaviour or try to diffuse the situation then I will go TOTALLY ballistic. If he dosen't want to hear me having a go at his dad then he can leave the room.And I really really don't think that is being unreasonable!

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UnquietDad · 12/05/2008 10:34

My mother does this - she saves up Telegraph articles and anecdotes to "prove" her point - and I find it very difficult to counter her. As JV says, you do begin to sound a bit as if you are evangelising.

You also get into an argument it's hard to get out of - it's easier with that generation (who are not going to change their views) just to ignore it

find ourselves being accused of "practising" our arguments (FFS, like we stand in front of the mirror and do it), of having been "told what to say" and of saying what we think is the right thing to "safeguard our jobs".

The most irritating thing my mother does in this regard (I can feel my blood simmering just thinking about it) is to tell us that we will "discover" that she was right when we grow up and have had all her "life experience".
I am 40 next year. How old do you have to be before you have "discovered" the "truth"?

NotQuiteCockney · 12/05/2008 10:40

I don't think 'having a go' is helpful, tbh. I think a gentle 'what you're saying is offensive to me, let's change the subject' is more likely to get you what you want.

(Assuming, of course, that what you want is a stop to these comments, rather than a fistfight with your FIL?)

NotQuiteCockney · 12/05/2008 10:40

Oh, and I don't think it's ok for old people to hold, and say, racist views. But I also find they tend to be quite stuck in their ways.

UnquietDad · 12/05/2008 10:42

In my experience they genuinely don't think they are racist views. They are quite flabbergasted that anyone can believe they are anything other than common sense.

NoBiggy · 12/05/2008 10:46

"Common sense", gawd, when is that ever anything but a big flag saying "here comes a load of facile old bollocks".

Quattrocento · 12/05/2008 10:47

I'm with ya tired lady

DiscoDizzy · 12/05/2008 10:47

My dad is a bit like this, not nasty but does make comments. Its not right but they are from a different generation and the older they get the more cantankerous (sp) they are. Like I said its not right, but when my father starts talking about things like that I just ignore him as I can't be bothered arguing with him, plus he has the same old argument. If I were in your shoes of course I would have expected DH to say something, however, perhaps they don't see you as someone from another country, as you are part of their family etc.

I'm not sure if i've got what I had in my head down in words the same way as i'm thinking them.

NotQuiteCockney · 12/05/2008 10:51

Part of 'common sense' (tm) is seeing that some immigrants are more foreign than others. I certainly here plenty of negative comments about Polish/Black/Asian people, but then, I'm white and from an English-speaking country, so I'm nearly as good as a Brit, surely?

UnquietDad · 12/05/2008 11:05

It happens if they spend their time in an environment where such views are not challenged and are passively reinforced.

If their friends are all from the same background and generation - and they ever see on the news is what they selectively choose to hear - then it's likely that they will find socially progressive views quite bizarre.

My mother claims that "all her friends" agree with her and we are made to feel like the odd ones for speaking (what we consider) reasonably. I know for a fact that some of her friends just nod and smile and change the subject - which of course is chalked up as an "agreement".

Original poster

tiredlady · 12/05/2008 12:23

Hmm, yes, NQC maybe you are right. I don't really want to have a go at my fil. I just want him to shut up and not talk cr*p in front of me and my kids.Maybe I should just tell him I find his views personally offensive and I want him to think before he opens his big fat mouth...
oh no, that's quite agressive really, maybe I do want to have a go after all?
No no, for the sake of family harmony, I will be the better person here and explain myself calmly.
Grrr, it's so hard doing the right thing!! Part of me just wants to let rip!
Good to hear I am not the only one though

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