Anyone sleep trained 3+yr old abysmal sleeper?

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Posting here for traffic.

3.5yr old, always been a terrible sleeper, no obvious special needs. Snores a bit but gp says tonsils aren't problematic (checked last yr and this yr again).

If you've sleep trained an abysmal sleeper, over the age of 3, what worked? What didn't work?

Please include age and how bad a sleeper they were prior (I've had so many suggestions from parents who actually have relatively easy sleepers - I want to hear from those who've really been through the trenches and finally cracked it somehow) (need some hope!)

I’ll be following this, as v interested in the replies! I have a two year old, also poor sleeper. Tonight’s wakes (very standard night).

11.20
12.20
1.20
1.40
3.30
3.45… still up now (4.15)

We tried sleep training around 1, but his reaction was so extreme I didn’t feel comfortable continuing with it.

It’s so tough. Hope you are doing OK. Xx

@charliearm solidarity. It is so tough. Hang in there xx

Oh OP, I don't have any words of wisdom. I did have a terrible sleeper - waking every 20 minutes or so - for the first few months, but it was mostly resolved once he was able to roll and get comfortable. And even that short period nearly broke me.

I can't even image trying to cope 3+ years in. I hope you get what you need from this thread so you can both get some proper sleep.

Mine are now teenagers but were terrible sleepers to age 3 when we did sleep training.

Things we tried include

• rigid bedtime routine with stories, calm and repetitive
• no chatter or fun after lights out. If child wakes, just a calm "back to bed"
• 2 mins rule - parents wait for 2 minutes before going to child in response to any crying in the night. Timed with a phone because it is hard to wait.
• lots of exercise and fun in the day.

It wasn't quick but the combination of those improved things a lot.

I bribed with kinder eggs if they 'went to bed no fussing and slept all night till morning' and used the grow clock. Not the Mumsnet approved method, but it helped. She is 9 now and still wakes up, but just tries her best to go back to sleep ( bar the occasional bad dream).

We also did lots of putting dolly to bed games, but that was when she was younger and we were tackling the 'going to bed' part.

I think more info is needed. When they wake up, what happens? Do they go to your room, yell for you to come to them? How long are the wake ups roughly? How many wake ups? Do they nap in the day? Have you tried co sleeping and does it work? Do they have enough energy in the day or are they very tired? Do you watch screens for more than 1 hour a day or watch screens before bed? Outside of sleep, is their diet ok? What time is bed time and what time is wake up time and roughly how many hours of that are they awake?

Then supposing that doesn't flag up anything unusual

• make sure they are happy and comfy in their room
• eliminate naps in the day
• stick to a bed time routine, a late one at first let's say 11pm (bear with me on this)
• do things in the day which make them v tired e.g. no screens and take them swimming, out for long walks

-if they manage to sleep through til 5am give lots of praise, rewards, explain how they are brilliant for sleeping through the night

• repeat and gradually make the night slightly longer bit by bit, by bringing bed time forward

-consistently give lots of praise for sleeping through each night

@Preggers101 he has trouble going to sleep on his own at bedtime, and then self-settling when he wakes in the night.

We have a consistent routine in terms of dinner, bath (7pm), bedtime (7.30pm). We read 1 or two books, he often potters about in his room (which is pretty much empty to avoid too much stimulation!), and then falls asleep with one of us next to him, anywhere between 8-9pm (it used to be 10-11pm but thankfully cutting the nap out helped!).

On average, he's up around 2-3 times a night - which is really not so bad considering it used to be 8x a night until he was almost 2. He cries (we don't come to get him), and then he'll come into our bedroom so we walk him back to bed and he falls asleep pretty much instantly.

In terms of morning - 60% of the time we have to wake him up (at 7am), and 40% of the time he wakes himself up before then. He often seems a bit tired during the day. He's also never been a great eater, and is low percentile (I was similar at his age).

We'd like to progress to not having to be in the room when he's falling asleep at bedtime as I think (hopefully) this will help him learn to self-soothe so he doesn't need to get us in the night. However, when we've tried gradual retreat, or just leaving the room, he quickly gets very very upset to the point where he's banging his head / flinging himself around the room, and we didn't want him to get hurt.

We've tried bribery as well but it hasn't worked. We went to the shop, bought a new toy as a prize if he sleeps through the night - he was excited at the idea, but no luck so far...

We do sometimes have to co-sleep if he's having a particularly bad night (mostly because our downstairs neighbour complains about the noise...). He sleeps well then but we don't as his snoring is pretty loud..!

Snoring would concern me, go to GP to get this checked out?

More toys in room so he feels comfy? Can he play in his room on his own before bed?

i had a terrible sleeper, and I totally understand how very few truly get it. In the end I got referred to a sleep clinic and this was what helped:

• got rid of the dummy
• calm routine hour before bed. Every night it was bath, story, bed.
• blackout blinds.
• glo clock. Taught him he could only call out when the sun came up. Reward and reward when he did.
• when he woke in the early hours (usually between 4-5am) he had to settle himself. In the early days he eventually would play with his cars and figurines quietly in his bed, and later on take himself down to the lounge and watch cbbc until the sun came up on his clock.

i make this all sound straight forward, but only got here with persistence and consistency. You need to help reset his inner clock. Rest assured when he was 10 he slept to about 7am but I’d mastered the routine so we weren’t woken throughout the night, so I could handle it better. Also, now he is a teen we have the complete opposite problem. Now struggle to get him up!

@Preggers101 yes I did wonder about the snoring - GP checked his tonsils out last year, and then again this year and said they weren't too big and he'll outgrow them. Not sure if we need to go private for a second opinion.

He's allowed to bring a toy in his room at bedtime as he likes to potter about a bit after story time, but we do need to remind him to stop playing and go to sleep as he gets very engrossed. When he was younger he used to insist on reading book after book after book, but we had to curb that as it was never ending. He really seems to have trouble switching his brain off!

I wonder if a wrapped present might work better than choosing the toy... had some luck with ds in similar situations of giving him a wrapped up present and saying he could unwrap it if "xyz". I put it somewhere he could see but not reach. It was very exciting (also the first time I did it, I made sure it was a gift he'd really like)!

Sounds like a nightmare I hope you manage to make progress soon OP.

If you think about it from your son’s eyes, he goes to sleep feeling safe that mummy/daddy are there, and wakes and realises they have gone. He gets scared. Now he is wide awake.
kids wake several times in the night but many can automatically get themselves back to sleep. He wakes gently, realises you’re not there anymore, and panics.
As hard as it is, we had to go through leaving our son at bedtime. Yes there were tears but after a few nights it clicked. And just for reference, the reason why we had to go to a sleep clinic was because he banged his head and threw up to get our attention. I was also breast feeding my younger son at the time, was completely knackered.
i also want to add that we had a child gate in his door. For both of my kids they cried at the gate the first two night and fell asleep there, then no more issues after that.
The glo clock is a big help as it helps to train them when they can get out of bed. Currently your boy wakes, mummy/daddy has gone, he has no idea what time it is so wants to investigate if you have left him. A gate will help him to know it’s still sleep time, and the glo clock will help him to see the sun hasn’t come up yet so the expectation is that he still needs to be asleep.
i would also suggest getting him up the same time every morning and putting him to bed the same time, regardless if he is tired/had little sleep in the night. You need to help reset his biological clock.
Consistency is key. Good luck. You can do it. Once you have cracked it you will be so glad you did. Keep thinking short term pain for yourself = long term gain.