To think that, as a manager, the occasional “sick day” when someone needs a break is fine?

[ByFluentPombear]

I manage a team and I accept that sometimes people just need a day off, even if they’re not physically unwell. As long as it’s not frequent or disruptive, I don’t really mind if someone calls in sick when they just need a mental health day or a breather.

Some managers would see this as dishonest or an issue - AIBU to take a more relaxed view?

I work in the public sector. If you wake up and you are ill then phone in sick. If you wake up and CBA to go to work then ring in sick. Don't ask for special treatment and all this crap 'duvet days' unless your company allows it. If you need a sick day for mental health reasons then that's fine, say so. Take a day's sick leave or MH reasons. No big deal. why all the faff about pretending. Just say it as it is.

If you were my manager I'd think you were a walkover. People will take the piss out of you as long as you let them.

p.s if it's your business then it Is your business re sick leave. But I didn't get that from your OP. I'm thinking you work for a company and your staff know you are a bit of a pushover

@katepilar Mainland Europe? The company I mentioned has HQ in another European country. With the similar notice period and only one day permitted too. They don't seem to have a big issue with sick leave since it was introduced either.

My manager has told me to log off if she can see I'm exhausted. I am grateful. As an employee though I don't take the piss and she knows that.

"Sometimes people just wake up and feel burnt out or overwhelmed."

If this is the case you need to look at the demands of the job and your management.

The problem with this is that more often than not it becomes acceptable to abuse this unwritten rule. One person might do this as a one off, someone else will catch wind of it and take several on the basis that it's become an unwritten allowance.

You can very easily fall in to a trap of Angela taking one day off here and there, to taking 20 and then it's hard to absence manage / take disciplinary action as the waters have been muddied. This is why I am a big fan of policy.

If someone is genuinely feeling mentally exhausted, then absolutely that is sick. If someone is feeling burnt out then they need to plan annual leave better to have regular breaks and address external factors.

To be honest if it got where staff were taking their 6 weeks and 8 bank holidays annual leave, yet sometimes waking up overwhelmed or burnt out, i would see that as a problem with my management that needed a change. Like needing more staff or changing how we communicate so it doesn't get like that. That would be a really, really rare occurence in my team. The act of just turning up and doing an ordinary job shouldn't be enough to trigger burnout etc.

Obviously occasionally a colleague will have something serious going on outside work like a nasty divorce or a bereavement, but thats separate and we have policies like compassionate leave etc to handle that appropriately.

I mean for it to get where staff are "not feeling 100% mentally or emotionally " and not be able to hold it together to the weekend is a bit unusual/lacking resilience? Yeah of course we all have bad days/off days but sometimes you just get on with it and count down til saturday then chill.

We used to have three duvet days a year at my last place no questions asked

But why did anyone need 3 duvet days a year?

You get 104 saturdays and Sundays a year, and at least 20 annual leave days (ive never worked anywhere with less than 30) and 8 bank holidays too... why is it you can't have a recovery day then?

It doesn’t create a culture of striving

Good. I wouldn't want to work anywhere that had such a 'culture'.

Turn up, work professionally, do your job to the best of your ability, take the money, go home and live your actual life. Anything else is bullshit.

I did it for the first time in my life, Monday and yesterday.

I did it because management where I work are tormenting me, as well as others.
I'm trying to plan my exit before I have a nervous breakdown.
I could never be honest with them, it would only make it worse.

I get that perspective but sometimes mental and emotional fatigue can hit unexpectedly and isn’t always about lacking resilience. People can be doing well for weeks or months and then suddenly feel overwhelmed, and it’s not easy to just push through. I agree with you on taking breaks and chilling when needed but I think it’s important to acknowledge that people sometimes just need a day to reset and recover - especially in high-pressure environments.

You get 104 saturdays and Sundays a year, and at least 20 annual leave days (ive never worked anywhere with less than 30) and 8 bank holidays too... why is it you can't have a recovery day then?

Bastards where I work gave us 20. But we have to deduct 4 days from that, for days they choose to close before Christmas. No option to work it. I get 16 scabby days per year to use..its not enough.

Depends on the job, and if it affects colleagues. I am an academic. Clearly I can't just take a duvet day on a day where I am teaching. However, last week I finished a major funding application that had me working multiple late nights in a row. The day after I submitted it I spent a couple of hours catching up on admin/emails and took the rest of the day off as my brain was still fatigued and incapable of deep thinking. Much better to rest and be fresh at work the next day.

Try being in some states of the US where you get two weeks if you’re lucky! Unimaginable really.

You still get 28 days, you just don’t get to pick 11 of them.

When I'm ill, especially if it's just for a day my manager doesn't ask me to give them a reason. If I take too many sick days hr will get involved. If it's a big organisation I'd say it's not your job to police your team members as long as they are doing their job. My manager also won't insist that the team does 9-5 but always says as long as,we put in the hours and get our jobs done it's up to us. Of course this wouldn't work for a lot of jobs but in my line of work people usually feel more motivated and do better if they aren't micromanaged.

We get 2 well-being days that can be taken at short notice. Things do crop up in life, and it's great to have the option of a back up there as annual leave is obviously planned in advance.

Additionally, it's better to have staff who feel more motivated by an understanding company vs one who pull a face if you need short notice time off.

tbh the piss takers would just take a sick day or three anyway and say they have a migraine. I don't have any way of knowing if it is true. I don't need to authorise a duvet day for them. They would take it and lie about it. Or doing nothing "working from home".

It is the diligent who are at work who I spot are struggling. And if I see they need a rest, I'd ask them to take the off sick or work from home or whatever works for them.

We encourage people to save 2/3 days AL for this (they get a lot).

Whenever they want they can call in and ask that we get cover. Honestly, you need that in this job and you can do 23 hours and not get a break.

I own my own business and allow 3 days of annual leave to be "duvet days" - annual leave which can be used without prior approval. Only stipulation is they let me know by 9am & they have no meetings that day.

I agree with you!

But some people are more resilient than others, and take more than their fair share of sick days.

We have one new team member who hasn’t done a full week yet -

We have another, been here 6 months and has loads for days sick.

Yet a long standing member of the team who had 2 weeks - Drs noted sick leave and has been hauled over the coals -

All you need is ‘are you feeling better’ and that’s it.

I think it principle it's fine. We're worked harder than our neighbouring European countries. Siestas, 2 hour lunch breaks were common in certain countries. People are generally treated as human first and a worker second. But that said , the countries I'd visited had a different work ethic. They'd be back from lunch on the dot for example. Us Brits are piss takers in general, 30 minute break creeps into 45 coz you saw Sandra in the corridor, 15 mins late in here and there. Sickies a plenty. Other countries don't have that kind of behaviour, it's mostly just us ! (Chicken, egg , I guess)

I was bought up quite strictly and "old fashioned" - my mum was very insistent that you don't turn up late and you should be practically dying before you have a day off. I'm nearly 40 and still feel sheepish if my mum finds out I've been off sick 😅

But, as always, the hardest workers pick up the slack whilst the 'frequent flyers' are the ones that will abuse the ability to have a penalty free 'sick day'. Tale as old as time. The grafters will shit out. Therefore you have to proceed with caution with blanket rules (be they positive or negative ones )

@blueshoes

If you know they are doing nothing working from home, can't you raise it with them?

@0ohLarLar

You sound like a delight.

I would say this is generational - I feel that Gen X will say it's not really acceptable & people need to just get on with life. I feel that younger generations are more likely to think it's the norm. I might be wrong. I don't think there's a definitive answer. Maybe if someone had that duvet day they are going to perform better & feel more valued.