People openly stealing in Greggs

[Xraytime]

Whilst I was in the queue for a coffee, 4 different people came in and took several sandwiches, doughnuts and drinks.

They were not together.

I feel like Greg’s need to put every behind the counter, I can’t see how it’s sustainable long term.

I see this at different Greggs aswell but there will normally be just one person. Today was shocking.

We were recently in Bognor Regis in the evening and the Tesco Metro had not only a security guard but a ‘one in one out’ policy. Never seen that before. Speaks volumes about a town.

It’s interesting and slightly terrifying to see how the posher parts of the uk deal with these problems. For example the whole of Canary Wharf, including DLR, is privately owned, with a lot of private security. If you steal from a shop in Canary Wharf you can expect not only a lifetime ban from the shop but also a ban from the entire Canary Wharf precinct and the DLR. Enforcement will become progressively easier in places like this thanks to facial recognition software and mechanisms to eg identify your bank card when you travel etc. We are becoming two worlds - somewhat dystopian. Here’s an example of what typically happens:
https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legalbeagles-consumer-forums/welcome-forum/1460514-caught-shoplifting-and-banned-from-canary-wharf

I think a lot react on impulse and don’t want to be going through official methods, just feel hungry in that moment and decide to take something.
Good on you helping out like that, I’ve done similar and met some great people and heard so much sadness. They do exist in their own world separate to ours and do have to become quite self interested and what looks selfish to us in a lot of their behaviours. Drugs are evil

Tax avoidance may be legal but it still exploits the tax system and is certainly not moral. Look at Jimmy Carr, Gary Barlow et al, they are the real “scum”

Perfectly moral. It's my money thank you very much. Jimmy Carr makes me laugh hysterically and cheers me up on a bad day.

He could still do that if he wasn’t a tax avoider- these slebs are well paid and can afford to pay their share of the tax burden. It IS immoral that ANY high earners can avoid tax by using schemes when minimum wages workers are paying tax without the ability to avoid it by using tax avoidance schemes.

The richest 1% already pay a lot. I have no qualms with someone legally reducing their tax burden, I'd do so as well and keep my money to myself if I could.

Fan of Jimmy Carr ! We’re done here !

Fan of Jimmy Carr ! We’re done here !

There is no excuse for stealing. None. Shoplifters are the scum of the earth.

So if a homeless person is starving, you'd rather they starved to death than stole some food?

They can go to a food bank or a soup kitchen.

Tax dodgers/evaders/avoiders, whatever you want to call them , are scum of the earth . They are thieves !

Presumably you include someone buying duty free at an airport? Or someone investing in an ISA bank account? Or putting money into a pension scheme?

They're tax avoidance - i.e. LEGAL tax planning.

Tax evasion is completely different - where it's something illegal, i.e. not declaring income, buying imported fags or booze from a mate down the pub, etc.

A distinguished judge once said, to paraphrase him, "it's everyone's duty to plan their affairs to pay as little tax as legally possible".

The key is what is legal and what is not legal. It's up to politicians to change the law if people are wrongly taking advantage of laws that are being used not for their intended purpose. Anyone doing anything illegal, i.e. not declaring income, lying on their tax returns, buying from criminals, is a completely different matter.

It does no one any favours to mix up what's legal and what's illegal.

Don’t be ridiculous, you well know that’s not what I’m talking about ! It’s not the same thing at all.

You're the one being ridiculous

It IS the same thing though. Where do you draw the line in your morality scale?

If something is legal, then it's legal.

If something is illegal, then it's illegal.

Tax planning/avoidance is legal. Evasion is illegal and you need to do a deliberate illegal act to commit illegal tax evasion. Everything else is background noise. Whether it's buying duty free booze at an airport, or a billionaire buying a private plane outside the UK to avoid paying UK VAT.

How do you feel about "gifts" to avoid inheritance tax?? There is NO legal difference between a parent of relatively modest wealth "gifting" a deposit for their adult child to buy a house (maybe out of a lump sum upon retirement) compared with a billionaire gifting a stately home to their adult child.

Is it only the quantum of the tax saved that you object to? Or is it politics of envy where you want tax breaks for yourself, but don't want tax breaks for people richer than you?

I was talking about tax avoidance schemes which are barely legal and morally dubious, such as the ones the likes of Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow used. I’m talking about scuzzy lawyers exploiting loopholes in the system so the likes of Jimmy Carr can have 3.3 million pounds and pay 1% tax. I’m talking about the likes of Jeremy Clarkson buying farms to exploit inheritance tax. I object to rich people not paying their fair share. No it’s not the politics of envy , rather the politics of fairness for all. In what universe do you think we live in a society where everyone is equal ? The rich know exactly how to hold unto their wealth .
Im a retired nurse who pays my fair share and do not expect tax breaks as you put it, whatever that means.
I’ve clearly touched a nerve here badbunny

And those places have enough resources to feed everyone who is in need, do they? Have you ever donated to them? Or, come to that, had any experience of being bones-of-your-arse poor?

But really the question should be, how can you talk so blithely about food banks and soup kitchens when there should be no need for them in the first place? Doesn't the extent of poverty in this country make you angry?

My eyes have been opened by my DS and partner. DS has toured a homeless shelter and seen how it works as part of his degree course. They see the pop up soup kitchens at the train station in the evenings. There's been a huge increase in the city of homeless.

Just to confirm you’re also happy for very rich business owners to do the same, not just slebs!

Yes

That’s interesting to me as I used to work in retail at Canary Wharf and we had frequent shoplifting that we were told not to challenge, as I said upthread we could call guards but they rarely got there in time. My partner shops in various parts of London and says the blatant shoplifting is terrible, especially in the evenings.

I see it in Boots all the time too, people will just walk out with armfuls of stuff, the Notting Hill branch is the worst. The staff say Boots don’t want to pay for security but they frequently get other customers as witnesses to fill in forms to pass on to the police. Funny isn’t it as if you watch TV dramas or films people always seem to be escorted to an office somewhere and questioned if they’ve been suspected of shoplifting until the police come but in real life it seems they just take what they want and go.

'They can go to a food bank or a soup kitchen.'

This is straight out of a Christmas Carol! Nice to see the same mentality still exists in 2025 😐

I don't agree with stealing but I also don't agree with the huge differences in wealth, no one should be starving due to poverty.