To be angry that the NHS doesn’t take pain seriously?

[LilyJosephine]

AIBU to think that the NHS is regularly dismissive of pain, especially if you are a younger woman? Maybe I’m biased as I’m a regular on the infertility boards (have name changed) where it seems like a lot of women are struggling with a late endometriosis diagnosis (and so now fertility problems) where their pain was dismissed for years.

But now I am in the exact same situation but with my back. After 2 years of extreme pain and having been told by a muscular skeletal specialist (whom you have to be referred to first by your GP as they gatekeep further referral/MRI’s) that there was no way I had spinal stenosis, as I was too young and it’s not genetic 🤷‍♀️ (my parent has it); and that I couldn’t have an MRI as she was sure it was just disc degeneration that everyone gets as they age. She was totally dismissive. Now guess what I’ve just been diagnosed with?

Finally managed to find a sympathetic GP (young male foreign locum if it matters) after multiple visits to others. He was the only one not dismissive of my pain and managed to find a way around to get me an MRI. It’s a good job he did as the spinal stenosis has now progressed to cauda equina and they sent me straight to A and E. The A and E back specialist said “You’ve likely been living with this for years (the spinal stenosis)”. Yeah, you don’t say? 🙄

Two years of struggling to parent my toddler due to the pain (I’m a SMBC) and now I likely face future back operations to avoid paralysis 😢I was planning on having more IVF for a second child and that’s possibly out the window now too. I’m furious.

Thanks if you’ve read all that. AIBU to think the NHS is dismissive of pain? An MRI back then when I needed one would likely have saved NHS costs now as well as my pain - it’s so short sighted!

I agree with you. I have a chronic condition I’ve lived with since childhood. A flare up a year ago meant I couldn’t walk without terrible pain for about 4 months. At one point after much fighting I was referred to a doctor who said “well it isn’t exactly cancer” and then dismissed me. Merely asking if there were options to prevent being in non lethal but disabling pain was a massive waste of his time and NHS resources.

If course I’m grateful I don’t have cancer but it isn’t meant to be a race to the bottom as to who deserves to be taken seriously.

They're dismissive of women's pain. It's been proven via various studies. I'm sorry to hear of your diagnosis.

To be honest, one of things I’m struggling hard with was that the muscular skeletal specialist was a woman! (the one who was most dismissive of me and refused an MRI). If the NHS has trained women to be dismissive of other women, things have come to a terrible pass 😢

I completely agree with you. I've been in pain for years now. Had to half beg for an x ray and was told "Your knees are in a better condition than mine, there's no way you're in any pain with them."

Still being refused an MRI after years. God knows how much it's cost them to do repeat bloods and pain med trials that haven't worked or made me so out of it that I can't focus anymore.

Best part is that I applied for PIP after realising I couldn't work anymore (literally collapsed during a shift). I joked with DW that the DWP would care more and actually grant me PIP before the NHS diagnose me.
Didn't think I'd be right. But I've been on PIP for almost a year and still no diagnosis or MRI, just repeat bloods, repeat trials and a pain clinic appointment where they said they couldn't help me because they weren't told what was wrong with me and could make it worse.

It's the medical profession and I'm afraid that includes other women. My female Dr dismissed me for over two years and kept sending me off with antidepressants.

I wasn't depressed. I eventually insisted on further tests and I had a chronic illness.

Guess what she said after the diagnosis? I expect they're wrong.

It's women's pain that they don't take seriously - as though the female body is an optional module that no medical student bothers to take.

Funnily enough I’m on PIP too. It’s like they are happy to “waste” money on benefits, on “free” (I’m in Wales) long term high dose pain medications, multiple x rays and blood tests. But an MRI 2 years ago leading to a diagnosis sooner could have changed all that.

I’m sorry so many other people are in this situation

Not unreasonable at all!

I fell down the stairs in lockdown and could hardly walk for months. When it was easier to get an appt with a doctor, I went to see someone. I was in agony when I tried to walk.

i was met with “it can’t be that bad or you wouldn’t be able to walk on it”

I’d ruptured my Achilles 😒

The stark difference in how men and women are treated is ridiculous. My husband (chronically sleep deprived, stressful job, runs on caffeine and sugar) went in with a ‘bit of a headache on and off’ (obviously a mild migraine, his risk factors are textbook) - within about a week had a head CT and a half day of eye tests at the hospital. It was a migraine.

I went to the GP with a lump and numbness in one of my legs and I was told it could be ‘lots of things, like diabetes or mental health’?!?! I had to make an absolute nuisance of myself to get any investigations whatsoever - ended up that I needed surgery.

What a frustrating and upsetting situation. And politicians wring their hands over why the sickness benefits bill is so large. Sending solidarity to all affected ❤️

I’d agree there is a real lack of joined up thinking in terms of budgets. I was hospitalised last year for anaemia, I don’t think I absorb the tablets properly. Can’t get an iron infusion till you be are ill enough to be an inpatient. Several nights in an acute ward and a blood transfusion.

Much cheaper to treat as an outpatient but nope, Let’s wait till we are concerned you’ll drop down dead.

Isn't women's health underfunded compared to men's health? I know if it was a man having these issues they'd be taken more seriously. Probably get a week off a month for their period.

What you've been through sounds horrible and dealing with that diagnosis plus feeling dismissed and disbelieved really adds insult to injury. I hope you're given the very best care and support going forwards.

So, I think you're right about women's symptoms and that includes pain being less believed.

Spinal stenosis is a degenerative condition that can cause really quite severe pain (as you well know). Now, I don't know how to articulate this diplomatically, but I'll try... There are now a lot of "wishy washy" chronic conditions that are applied to people that a Dr or team of specialists cannot find 'proof' of through various tests so a diagnosis of elimination is made that's given a name. It's very subjective and these conditions often co occur with other similar conditions of the same nature. Unfortunately, the people diagnosed with these conditions do often fit a demographic and sadly that demographic tends to be middle aged women with other co morbid mental health conditions. Now this is in no way a judgement on those individuals...

So, my point being, I think that translates to "middle aged women with chronic pain who want loads of strong painkillers for a condition that I can't find proof of " . I think as women we kind of fit into a "stereotype" and it's dangerous.

I'm sorry, I haven't articulated that well. I guess the short answer is, I think it's down to stereotyping. Particularly middle aged women.

I do wish you well for your future treatment and care. I'm glad you've got your answers finally at the very least !

I am sorry you have spinal stenosis, that is tough.
Spinal stenosis is actually very common in those over 50, and is part of ageing.
Back pain issues are also very common. By age 50, 95% of people have degenerative issues in their back.
Drs obviously can not order MRIs on everyone. You obviously needed one as your spinal stenosis is more severe. But it is a judgement call assessing who needs one and who does not. And bias does come into play.
I know people who have been referred for MRIs for what turned out to be low level issues, and others who struggle to get referred for more serious issues. It is not limited to the NHS, it is about bias amongst medics when making judgement calls.
I am glad you are finally going to get the support you need,

I would sue quite frankly- some of these hcps refusing tests - fucking ridiculous

Sorry maybe it's me - not sure what your point is - are.you saying this is a bias against middle aged women or that the middle aged woman are at fault somehow?

I went to a and e after falling over, told them I'd fainted and that my arm was painful. The doctor I saw queried whether I needed an x-ray saying there's no way that's broken if you were in real pain you'd make more fuss. It turned out I had fractured the humerus in two places and chipped the head of the bone

I went to a&e (as gynae told me to) because I couldn't get my pain under control. Gynae said if I was vocalising pain after all my meds then I needed to go in

I had taken max amounts of paracetamol, naproxen, dihydrocodeine and oramorph plus using a tens machine
A&E offered paracetamol, said nothing they could do and sent me home without examining me

A month later I'm in vocal pain again with gynae telling me to go to a&e... to what? Sit there for 12hrs trying not to scream in pain as people stare at me? You're ok, I'll stay at home and yell there!

No. I think I've made my point as clearly as I am able to.

What is it in one line apologies I have read it a few times and cannot work it out

@maddening she's trying to say that stuff like fibromyalgia fits a certain demographic, it isn't really a thing and those people are demanding pain relief for something that doesn't exist

So how can doctors tell whether someone really is in pain or not when they could just be diagnosed with a condition through process of elimination

And obviously that demographic is female (must tell my male friend who has fibromyalgia)

I don't agree with this. It's very hard for a man to get a PSA test for example whilst women are practically badgered about smear tests-I'll be receiving my 3rd reminder any day now.

The ridiculous thing is that she seemed so certain it couldn’t be spinal stenosis since I was only 40 - as if I haven’t watched my parent go through the same thing and I don’t know severe pain from just an ache.

I managed gallstones in the past and immediate c section recovery with just some paracetamol. I have a high pain tolerance - I don’t want lots of pain killers, I just wanted them to tell me why I was in so much pain and an MRI would have done that. Now they have wasted time, the problem has gotten worse and I will likely take up far more NHS (and benefit) resources. I understand MRI’s don’t grow on trees but it seems so nonsensical 😡

@maddening "all terrorists are "Muslim", but not all Muslims are terrorists" (not my quote )

"Not all middle aged women have (insert controversial subjective "chronic condition") but all subjective (insert controversial condition) sufferers are middle aged women"

So middle aged woman goes to GP with chronic pain and may get stereotyped into a particular group. The "diagnoses" flying around that aren't actually "diagnoses" possibly do not help matters

I’m trying to thank my lucky stars the pain wasn’t caused by something like a tumour though. At least Cauda Equina isn’t potentially terminal, just very debilitating. If this thread and others I’ve read is at all indicative, I dread to think of the number of people presenting with pain that doesn’t get taken seriously until it’s too late 😢