To not facilitate grandparents relationship forever?

[okydokethen]

I'm so disappointed in my dad's relationship with my children (11&13) and genuinely unsure what I should expect.

He's 75, single and in good health, drives and is fairly well off.

We live locally, I take DC to visit him every other week or we go out for dinner - he often pays for dinner if this is important. In the last 3 years he's visited us twice.

He's never taken DC out without me and never suggests anywhere we could go other than restaurants because he can't cook. He's never taken DC to a park, to get an ice cream on the seafront where he lives or the cinema or any other low effort/low cost activity. He doesn't initiate any interaction with them bar asking how are you and questing DD about school as she is quite academic.

For DSs recent birthday we went out for dinner and he said happy birthday but his only other comment was 'is it an educational game?' when DS told him about buying a Fortnite voucher with his birthday money. I feel this was facetious not curiosity.

DC don't particularly enjoy seeing him, they are polite but i guess it's boring. I feel they get so little from him that soon enough they'll say no thanks to coming along and I can't say I blame them. If he doesn't want to put any effort in to bonding with them, he's going to get very little back. AIBU to tell him this? Or do I just leave it?

But they're not hard to engage with that's my point and just 11 and 13 is still young.

And presumably this wont be magically easier for him when they turn 18.

It's hard for him I guess, but a bit of effort could be really rewarding. He wants to see them but just for them to sit quietly.

You have to translate between the generations. He will have very different ideas of how things should be. My mum is similar. She was no fun at all for them.

Try training the dc in what to ask grandad about (key historical moments, how he learned to drive). You want things he’ll want to talk about and they’ll want to hear about.

He doesn’t want to hear about fortnight- it’s like listening to computer programmers or accountants- too niche.

When he was their age he was watching the moonlanding. Mobile phones were on Star Trek.

You might not think that they're hard to engage, but generally speaking (with the exception of caring, school, doctors, etc) adults and teenagers don't spend a huge amount of time together unless they have a shared interest. There are children of a similar age in my family and it can be very hard to find common ground.

You either need to 1) accept your role in facilitating conversations, 2) tell your kids that when they go to Grandad's house they take a book to read while Mum and Grandad catch up or 3) see less of him.

"He wants to see them but just for them to sit quietly" - so does he want to talk at them and tell them boring stories? Or does he want to talk to you and for them to listen?

Honestly OP I'd reduce it to once a month if I was you. And yes I'd say exactly the same if it was your mum rather than your dad.

If your dad can't cook, why don't you invite him to have dinner with you sometimes? That would be more relaxed than going to a restaurant and neither he nor your children have to force conversation. He'll just be a member of the family there at dinner time, could maybe watch a bit of TV with you, help do the dishes with one the children, etc.

The grandparent relationship is built with young children under the age of 10. It's too late now to expect your children to forge a bond with him imo. Who is he to them? Just a boring, slightly selfish old man who's not that interested in them and who never grew a sunflower with them in the garden, pretended to be a tiger chasing them around the room or bought them a three-scoop ice-cream in the shop with extra toppings and said guiltily on the way back to dinner "Let's not tell your mother".

Teens and almost-teens are embarrassed by their parents, who they love and depend upon, let alone their grandparents. Grandparents are important to teens at this age due to the memories they have of childhood treats, affection and adoration - good times spent together - and if the bond wasn't forged then because the good times weren't spent together, personally I think it's a bit hopeless to think it will develop now.

I do invite him but he prefers to eat out (I'm not an awful cook I don't think) and he doesn't like to drive in the dark which is fair enough.

I'm going to tell DC to take a book. I thought that was a bit rude but I think it's better.

He wants to talk to me whilst they sit quietly or tell them stories and for them to listen and has explained that in his day he did this and happily sat and listened to his mother talk to the adults.

Just go and see him without the kids. Or takes pictures of them and put the pictures on the seats - they won't interrupt, are cheaper and won't cost him money.

I don’t understand.

You say this is how he behaved as a father. Why are you surprised or upset?

I think it sounds like he’s doing his best. As your DC get older they should be able to respond better. Yes grandad, this is what I have learned from playing Fortnite. I play another game that taught me a lot about the Vietnam War/Penguins/Cricket (or whatever) do you know much about that grandad?

@CrispieCake yep I take this I think you are completely right.

It sounds like he just wants an admiring audience rather than to interact with then and have a reciprocal relationship.

Yes you could tell him this but he’s not going to change. If he’s spent his life having women and children sit obediently and listen while he dispenses words of wisdom, then he’s not going to have a personality transplant at 75.

It’s your choice to spend your own time with him but I think that two whole nights a month is too much to force your kids to endure. I would start doing some other things with your father alone eg museum on a Sunday afternoon, walk along the sea front and coffee and cake afterwards.

That way you can make excuses for the children ( sports /music / drama / birthday party ) and phase the dinners down to one night a month and then less.

I know it’s hard - those of us who had inadequate, uninterested fathers often hope that they will see the light and become good GF. We tell ourselves that they were busy with work / the rotary or couldn’t get a word in with chatty mum but now everything will be different.

Or as you said, they don’t like the noisy baby stare and the messy toddler stage but they will LOVE chatting to my polite and engaging 11 year old .

But if course they don’t . Because it’s not about your kids, it’s about them. They have no social skills and don’t what to learn then because they don’t care. its hard to accept that they are honesty not interested, they want to see family because they are lonely and have few friends. Not because they are 75, because they are self centred.

@0ctavia oh wow, this is so true. Admiring audience is spot on. Thank you.

I think it sounds ok. He sees them regularly, maybe you are expecting too much?

My dad is also 75, and in good health.
My dad sees DD (7) for maybe 2 hours every 2 to 3 weeks. They play a board game usually, maybe a bit of lego. After a snack he's ready for us to go.
He was never fantastic at relating to his own kids 30 years ago so I can't be surprised how he is now at 75!

I think some older men find it hard to talk to teenagers (more men than women).
To be honest I don't recall my grandfathers talking to me much apart from niceties or to ask about school.

My siblings and I were an admiring audience to our grandmother in the later years of her life when we were in our teens and 20s (she died when I was mid-20s). We listened to stories we'd heard a hundred times, brought her presents of her favourite tea and sweets, sent funny cards we knew she'd like, went with her to church when we visited so she could show us off - "And these are my lovely grandchildren" - even though it was excruciating for us, supported her when she became unsteady but still wanted to pop down the road for a drink and wouldn't hear of one of us driving.

But this was a lady who had looked after us frequently from birth, who we lived with for a year while my parents were renovating a house, who made my brother lunch for 2 years because he didn't want to have it at primary school (in those days, you could come home for lunch), who had grown up without many treats so always had a full treat cupboard when we visited, who we stayed with frequently while our parents were away.

It might be selfish, but I would not have done the same for a grandparent I hardly knew.

Some of these early answers are really surprising to me. My dad is 78 and gets on with my two kids (15 and 12) like an absolute house on fire! We don't see him as often because of distance, but they engage with each other and have fun. BUT that was the sort of dad he was too (although tbh he's got even more fun now he's older, retirement really suits him) so I think their relationship is building on mine. I guess you can't force it if it doesn't suit him. But no, not everyone over the age of 70 can't relate to/speak to/remember what it was like to be a teenager!

@okydokethen I suspect the reason that he doesn’t want to have dinner at your house is nothing to do with your cooking. It’s probably because he likes to play the host and dominate the conversation. He instinctively knows it would be rude to do that in your house. Or if you have a male partner, in another man’s house.

That’s probably why he always pays . If it was about generosity , he’d be giving more money and gifts to the children.

I don't think it sounds too bad, I would continue while everyone is happy to do so, realistically it may not be an issue for much longer. The kids find it dull but OK, your DF seems happy enough as he asks for more visits, so crack on.

Perhaps prime the kids before you arrive next time, almost like a game, see if you can get grandad to tell you about X or find out what Grandad did when he was your age.

Also play an active role in the conversation, "DS tell Grandad what you did at scouts last week " or "DD is doing an interesting project at school, tell Grandad about it".

Perhaps suggest some alternatives to dinner, or things to do as well. A walk by the canal to the pub for lunch, or an hour at the beach to work up an appetite. What about a museum trip instead or a trip to an event that everyone would enjoy. How about inviting him to see the kids sports matches or hobbies? It might open things up a bit.

Met up with cousins at their dad's funeral last year and we were talking about our grandad. We all agreed he never spoke to us! He took me for walks with him when I was a child and never said a word. I enjoyed the walks, mind.

It’s weird how women of a similar age can manage to engage with their grandkids, isn’t it?

My mum was 8 months younger than my dad and my DC loved seeing her as she engaged with them, sent them magazines in the post, Halloween decorations, gave presents that were relevant, actually talk to them and I could happily leave them with her knowing they would be fed and looked after. She died 3 years ago and my dad would have no relationship with them if I didn’t facilitate it including buying presents on his behalf and pretending they’re from him. MIL is a similar age to my dad and they love seeing her because she’s just like my mum was.

@WorriedRelative I think this is sensible, although not pubs, he doesn't do pubs - I tried a beautiful walk and a lovely pub and my dad was horrified!

@Lolapusht so often so true. If he had a female partner I imagine it would be a lot easier. My mum who is older and has been very ill, is great at communicating with the kids, being actively involved with them and wanting to be so.