If you have a teenager who compulsively lies

[Fstt1978]

My sister is really struggling with her 15 year old daughter at the moment. It's been an ongoing issue since she was about 10.
It started with claims about her year 6 teacher screaming at her and pinching her. All investigated and not true. She's made friends throughout high school then always made up a lie about them and they give her a wide berth. The lies are always easy to prove wrong. School investigates every allegation (quite rightly) and we know she is now flagged for teachers to never be alone with her. Her lies are spreading, a few weeks ago she accused a woman in the supermarket of barging her and telling her to fuck off. She marched her mum (my sis) to the woman who was loading her shopping at the checkout. Its been a week of my sis back and forth with the pcso and the supermarket cctv shows no such thing. My sister has got her counselling, she sees a second one through school, but it's not working at all. Niece has now started saying to her mum that it would be a shame if niece rang social services (ie threatening my sister) she's at the end of her tether and becoming more and more scared of her. Anyone had similar?

I will say all the very, very well documented lies go heavily in your sisters favour. She shouldn’t be reacting in fear, she should tell DN “Okay, call SS then. Go ahead.” And prepare herself, the school, both her outside and inside school therapists, and any/all evidence from the supermarket complaint.

If/when SS approach she can say “Yes, I am well aware and have been dealing with repeated false accusation for years now. I don’t know what to do and I’m glad you are involved. Please help me.”

Are there any other "symptoms" or issues with DN? Has your sister considered consulting psychiatrist? Conditions such as personality disorders would make people lie and create false accusations. I would def take that route just to be sure... have a read on it, you'll know if symptoms align. Good luck

What was your niece have said if your sister had said oh dear well you may end up going into care then? As the previous poster said everything benefits her at the moment but if a consequence wouldn't benefit her then would she still continue to lie?

Have a look at pathological demand avoidance and see if there's anything there that rings a bell.

It sounds incredibly difficult for your sister. Has she a partner?

Has your niece experienced trauma?
Any learning needs like processing or working memory difficulties?
Any neurodivergence?

I think she needs to look at why her daughter feels the need to lie: (AI overview - quite good I think)

People lie for many reasons, including to avoid punishment, to protect others, or to get what they want. Lying can also be a coping mechanism to avoid negative feelings.

Reasons for lying

Avoid punishment: A primary motivator for both children and adults
Protect others: To avoid hurting someone's feelings
Get what they want: To impress others, or to get out of work
Avoid negative feelings: To cope with rejection, judgment, or embarrassment
Maintain privacy: To hide misdeeds
Avoid conflict: To prevent conflict or to buffer conflict
Save face: To appear more courageous or virtuous than we are
Avoid expending energy: To avoid doing something we don't want to do
Protect friends and family: To protect their feelings
Lying in relationships
In relationships, people may lie to avoid conflict, but this can lead to resentment and distrust

BBC Video on 'Why do we lie?'
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My daughter was bullied by someone like this for a year at school. The girl was a pathological liar with a sidekick who always stuck up for her. She’d make up crazy lies about my daughter to anyone who would listen, backed up by her sidekick. They moved classes the next year and she did exactly the same to another child. It was chilling. So cold and calculated. The last I heard was the bully now has no friends in high school and is totally isolated. The parents refused to see that their child had a severe psychological problem, when really lots of intervention / medication (which the parents could well afford) might have helped the bully lead a more normal life and maybe make friends.

Those reasons are mainly all very “nice” reasons. Sometimes people lie to get attention or to get others in trouble for no actual reason other than they like to see the fallout. Not EVERY behaviour has some sad underlying reason like the person is scared or trying to protect someone else. None of those reasons listed there would explain why a teen would tell their mum someone barged into them in a supermarket.

To answer some questions
Mum and Dad are separated but very amicable. There are no new partners either side and both see the kids every day. There are siblings who do not lie.
No trauma apparent, psychiatrist is a good idea.
The allegations are so often and so dangerous that it's a real worry for when she is older, both for innocent people caught in her crossfire, but in case anything really does happen and she is not believed. She claimed a serial assault by a boy in her year last year, it all blew up on social media and the boy was deeply troubled by it, became a risk to himself. Again it was proven by school CCTV that he was nowhere near her all day.

Sexual not serial*