WWYD - casual racism

Bearbookagainandagain · 2025-03-03T08:25:15+00:00

I know I was being unreasonable not to say anything, but I'm not sure what I should have said and how. A few minutes ago, I was getting a coffee at the coffee van near the train station. Two men in front of me waiting to be served, I just caught the end of the conversation but one of them was telling the women working in the van that she "didn't look British", then mumbles something I couldn't hear but clearly refering to her eyes and concluded "I probably shouldn't have said anything, but we normally see you lot in chip shops...". She was laughing it off, but clearly uncomfortable. He seemed to know he had said something wrong, but didn't apologise or retracted what he had said. It feels a bit of a cliché but both men were white, in their 60s, wearing bright orange uniforms so think they were railway workers. What would you have said? I was shocked and I'm not the most diplomatic in those situations, so if I had said something it would have come out quite aggressively. The main reason I didn't is that I didn't want to embarrass the woman even further. She was clearly trying to get it over with.

ThatCalmCat · 03/03/2025 08:36

What kind of thing would you have said? It's always an awkward one, as the person on the receiving end is who you were thinking about, and that's the important part. So I can see why you stopped yourself from making them any more uncomfortable.
The greater good though is to call people out so they don't do it again.
A good one is to ask if everything is OK. It's an acknowledgement, and might make the people making comments think twice. Or perhaps ask them what they said. Having to repeat it would likely cause them the embarrassment they deserve.
It shouldn't be swept under the carpet that's for sure.
I must admit I've had more occasions where I have felt unsure whether to say anything and haven't, than have. And when I have, it never seems to make a bit of difference to the aholes saying things.
I can't believe in this day and age that people still have these attitudes towards one another.
What a shame that it is playing on your conscience and not theirs.

SuddenFrisson · 03/03/2025 08:43

I could list on here a list as long as my arm of slurs against my nationality made by white English men in late middle age or older in the many years I lived in England. Nothing I would have wanted in terms of intervention from a passerby, usually — they were far more serious when they occurred in the workplace. Sometimes I shut them down, other times I didn’t, because you can just get very tired from that kind of thing. It’s a small minority of people, but you never know when it’s coming. You let down your guard, and are chatting to someone at a bus stop, and wham. I’ll be honest, it did contribute to my decision to leave the UK eventually.

Original poster

Bearbookagainandagain · 03/03/2025 08:44

Asking if everything is ok is a good idea, thanks! It probably would have ended the conversation even if it made things awkward.

All I could think about was that he was being a racist twat! But I find it even more difficult because I think he was being very ignorant as opposed to mean. If he had been aggressive I would find it easier to say something.

OP posts:

ThatCalmCat · 03/03/2025 09:18

SuddenFrisson · 03/03/2025 08:43

I could list on here a list as long as my arm of slurs against my nationality made by white English men in late middle age or older in the many years I lived in England. Nothing I would have wanted in terms of intervention from a passerby, usually — they were far more serious when they occurred in the workplace. Sometimes I shut them down, other times I didn’t, because you can just get very tired from that kind of thing. It’s a small minority of people, but you never know when it’s coming. You let down your guard, and are chatting to someone at a bus stop, and wham. I’ll be honest, it did contribute to my decision to leave the UK eventually.

I'm sorry that you experienced that and it contributed in your decision to leave the UK. I can't say I blame you, so many ignorant and narrow minded idiots still out there.
Out of interest, if someone was to step up and say something in this sort of situation, what would you say is the best line to use? Having never been on the receiving end, it's difficult for me to know.

AttentionDeficitAndSquirrel · 03/03/2025 10:00

ThatCalmCat · 03/03/2025 08:36

What kind of thing would you have said? It's always an awkward one, as the person on the receiving end is who you were thinking about, and that's the important part. So I can see why you stopped yourself from making them any more uncomfortable.
The greater good though is to call people out so they don't do it again.
A good one is to ask if everything is OK. It's an acknowledgement, and might make the people making comments think twice. Or perhaps ask them what they said. Having to repeat it would likely cause them the embarrassment they deserve.
It shouldn't be swept under the carpet that's for sure.
I must admit I've had more occasions where I have felt unsure whether to say anything and haven't, than have. And when I have, it never seems to make a bit of difference to the aholes saying things.
I can't believe in this day and age that people still have these attitudes towards one another.
What a shame that it is playing on your conscience and not theirs.

It might not make a difference to the racist arseholes but if it was me on the receiving end I'd appreciate the support and knowing that other people thought differently. It would also give me more confidence to speak up knowing that the people around me were supportive.

However, I do think it would make a difference in most cases of casual "low level" racism even to the casual racists. They might not even realise or might not be sure thst what they said was really offensive or racism and if someone points it out to them then they can't plead ignorance any more. I worry that in last few years anti immigration sentiments and racism are being normalised with people who are overtly racist "just voicing what everyone else thinks". If racists believe that their thoughts are mainstream it will just embolden them and make society more and more racist.

But yes it doesn't have to be a big showdown. Even a simple "is everything ok" is enough to let everyone know that you think something irregular is going on

JHound · 03/03/2025 10:04

I will be honest I see so much casual racism (and receive it) I would be mentally exhausted tackling it all.

I think the woman in the coffee van felt the same. Next time when the guys walk off you can something to her like “what a pair of plonkers those two were” and roll your eyes.

Shows a bit of solidarity.

SuddenFrisson · 03/03/2025 10:09

ThatCalmCat · 03/03/2025 09:18

I'm sorry that you experienced that and it contributed in your decision to leave the UK. I can't say I blame you, so many ignorant and narrow minded idiots still out there.
Out of interest, if someone was to step up and say something in this sort of situation, what would you say is the best line to use? Having never been on the receiving end, it's difficult for me to know.

Edited

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To be honest, it’s only since I returned to my home country, that I realise how much it affected me, often unconsciously — because you never knew when it was coming, it meant I was just on guard without realising it.

I don’t think anything would particularly have helped, but the other poster who said anything neutral that interrupts has a point. I was in London last week and note that the tube now has posters saying that if you think a fellow-passenger is being harassed, a simple question to the ‘victim’, even ‘What time is it?’ or ‘Is the next stop South Ken?’ can break up the dynamic.