Who is living in London?

[Theredbears]

I am a mother to 3 children, all in their mid - late teens, and a whole bundle of DN who are out of uni and are working.

The common complaint most of the DN who are working is how difficult it is to get into the housing ladder. These are bright, motivated and hardworking people.

One DN is in her late 20s and is working as a teacher, with a net pay approx £2.5k - gross is £43k but after tax, student loan and pensions. After rent, bills, food etc she has approx £700 to save towards her deposit.
Even a basic flat in around her area will set her back £350k which will be a struggle.

This leads me to my next question, if ateacher cannot afford a basic flat in London, who is living in London? People who purchased their house 20 -30 years ago?. Where are London's police officers m, nurses, teachers etc all going to live?

My husband and I saved up during lockdown and bought a place in 2022, in our mid 30's. 3 bed semi in zone 6 London.

We saved just over 120,000 in that roughly 2 year period, put around £70k into the house (deposit, stamp duty, lawyers), upgraded our car with a portion and saved a portion as a rainy day fund.

I'd we hadn't been in lockdown there's no way we would've saved that sum, and we'd probably still be renting. We both kept our jobs and were able to massively save. That's the only way we're on the ladder.

We also have a toddler now.

ill get bashed I anticipate but

I am in my mid 20s and I've just bought my first property in London for less than £300k and it was in reasonable condition, I originally got my agreement in principle when I was earning £48k I currently earn just over £50k and I took advantage of nationwide helping hands mortgage and I lived off my third graduate salary which was £35k so I was saving the difference between £48k-35k and every time I got a salary increase I just saved that as well I didn't spend it, I didn't lifestyle inflation creep. It took a lot of sacrifice and saying no to a lot of things, but I still travelled and I still have something I just didn't go out constantly.

It sucks for young people, but where young people are earning an above average salary then yes we do have to sacrifice I have done it without the bank of mum and dad. I've had no parental help. I think people honestly need to disregard the average house price as well because you will always find something under that.

edit to add I'm zone 4 and I haven't used a buying scheme

I feel like it's becoming increasingly polarised and most people are either:

Wealthy - through their own efforts, inheritance or being born into Londoner families (I know loads of retired folk who have sold up and downsized or converted their house into maisonettes for their adult children)

Poor enough to qualify for social housing.

I earn the London Living wage which is something just over 26k for a full time 40 hour week job.

The people I work with:
Both bosses,who have kids, commute from Medway area of Kent where they have bought houses.
Co workers: 5 have council houses/ flats. 4 of the 5 are about 60. Two have children.
One other, over 60, no children, has a council flat she bought years ago.
Four live with their parents, two of these are in their late 40s the other two are early 20s. No children.
One, mid 40s, bought a flat years ago. No children.
One has a wife who works in finance and he got money from his rich family. They own a house and have children.
Two are 30-40 and living in house shares, sharing a room with their partner. No children.
One, 50, rents a studio flat. No children.

Everyone except the council tenants and the people who own houses is actively looking for work outside London. When people have had kids they've moved out of London immediately unless they have a rich spouse.

i bought a one bed for £130k in a poor area of London 25 years ago. I was earning an okay salary and could afford it. I sold it several years later and the price had jumped massively. You had to be earning £90k to get a mortgage then. A few years later it went for £500K+ and the buyer had help from her parents. She now has two kids and can’t afford to move. They share a bedroom with no window. Primary schools are closing down all over our area and the only people moving in now seem to be bankers and lawyers. It’s unsustainable.

Working poor. Renters. People who have a partner / parent helping with a deposit.

Her savings rate is pretty decent to be honest. I think on average in London it takes 10 years to save a deposit.

obviously millions of people live in London. Many earn a lot more than your DN, as teaching is poorly paid. Lower earners may be in social housing, may have used shared ownership or similar to purchase

and in many parts of London its common to bring up your children in a small flat

We live in a house in London we were able to afford only because we started with a one-bed flat donkey's years ago and accumulated lots of equity as we climbed the property ladder. London is an expensive place to live and sometimes I do wonder why we don't sell up, move to the sticks and live off the profit we'll make, but we just love it here too much.

A lot of people rent in London in their 20s, then move away in their 30s so they can buy.

Buying in London on one salary was hard even 30 years ago.

Normal people who do buy in London generally need 2 incomes to do so, and can't be picky about area.

Also a lot of people live in house shares. I could save more and faster if I scrapped all socialising, never travelled and also moved back into a houseshare but I don’t want to do any of those so accept it means I won’t be buying a property for at least 5 years.

In my workplace it’s very noticeable how so many of the younger ones aren’t living in London. But with hybrid working they don’t have to either.

Bank of Mum & Dad has been a helping hand for decades though, that’s not new.

My niece and her boyfriend. They're in their 20s, are actors, and have a room in a house share. No hope of owning anything for the foreseeable.

My Dn and partner have just bought a tiny house. Mid - late 20s. Work in local govt offices and a manager in retail.

Lovely little house, excellent transport …. <<cue horror music>> … in Croydon.

It’s brilliant for them. They are not a generation to have the squeamish heebie-jeebies that occur on MN when more affordable areas of London are mentioned.

Everyone I know who was born in London ( Clapham / Battersea / Fulham area ) have all moved slightly out to places like Sutton, Epsom, Worcester Park. These places are more affordable but still not too far a commute into central London. 15/20 minutes from W/P to Waterloo for example.

Completely agree with this. The idea that this generation has missed out on some era where middle income single 20 somethings with no gifted deposit had their pick of London property is a myth. I did it 20 years ago like most because I had a partner, low expectations (1 bed in a rough area of Zone 2), an eye to the long game and a burning desire never to deal with a landlord ever again. A basic flat is all a single childless person needs - no need to turn one's nose up at it and it gets you on the ladder.

My aunt lived in London in the 60s working as a PA. She and 7 other girls shared a two bedroom flat in Notting Hill which was then a very dicy area. Crowded, expensive housing is the norm for almost all young, single average earners in London. Same as it ever was.

Late twenties/early thirties is the rough spot, you’re fed up with renting, not everyone’s in a relationship, mostly not earning enough to have any real hope of saving a deposit, and you’re starting to hear of / see mates getting deposits off parents. It sucks.

Everyone I know who scrimped / saved / got given enough to buy a tiny east/south london shithole as near their mates as they could afford 10/15 years ago is now buying a decent house in zone 3 or 4 with the proceeds of the flat, a partner, and the salary increases that come with another 10 years of working. I imagine the same is true at a different level for the Chelsea set.

No idea who’s living central though. Bankers I guess

It’s a combination of:

• people who bought before the property boom
• mega rich people for whom cost isn’t an issue
• not so wealthy but solid middle class people whose parents funded their deposit
• older people who have owned for decades
• people struggling to pay nosebleed rents
• council housing occupants

I am lucky enough to have bought in the early 2000s when it was still relatively affordable. But I have colleagues in their 20s and 30s for whom buying property is an impossible dream.

Its shit…

I moved to London post-uni back in the late 1990s and none of the people I started work with (big 4 consulting so salaries were decent for a new grad) could afford to rent anywhere on their own. We all lived in house shares with 3-4 other people - similar to student accommodation if I’m honest. But we had a blast and they were some of my happiest times! Eventually managed to work and save enough for a small deposit but had to have a lodger to cover half the mortgage. I know it’s tough now, but it definitely wasn’t easy back then either.

Good points made about unrealistic expectations - nowadays it seems halls of residence have en-suite rooms (unheard of in my day) so I wonder if younger people simply don’t want to rent rooms that come 4 to a bathroom.

Ddadkji There was a good article about in The Times about this. TLDR version: Gen Z don't have it worse than other generations with income and housing - they just have much higher expectations.

www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/compared-to-millennials-are-gen-zers-really-that-poor-fmxth5sz9

I'm a single parent, professional, earn under 50k - live in a shared ownership flat in Zone 2. Life is tough but I would imagine I would not be better off elsewhere as I would get paid about 10-15k less outside of London.

Edited: most people I know are just normal couples with kids, some live in houses, some in flats. But most bought something ages ago in not-so-good areas, got a lot of equity, and bought something together with their partners. Also, London salaries are much better and if you progress you get paid really well.

A lot of people rent, some are in council properties. No one I would describe as "working poor" - just normal.

You need to work your way up the ladder a bit more and save for a longer period of time.

The "ladder" doesn't really work now

Perhaps putting off having kids until later in life too.

People already do this or just don't have them hence why schools are closing or merging.

have it worse than other generations with income and housing - they just have much higher expectations.

That doesn't make sense because of wage stagnation, wages vs house prices, high rents, higher uni costs & less social housing.

Most people:

• buy with a partner.
• buy a shared ownership property and only buy a smaller percentage
• move to a cheaper, less nice area.
• have family help with a deposit
• inherit from a grandparent
• move further & further out/leave london

Lots of the key workers in london are married to a higher earner and this is how they afford property.

I'm a teacher and I live in London....