To think that funding free breakfast clubs is wrong-headed?

[WaahWaahWinston]

Government is to fund free breakfast clubs for all primary school children. This doesn't strike me as the best use of money for schools; I imagine there are better things to spend money on that would be of greater educational benefit to children.

It may help a tiny proportion of families but breakfast is probably the easiest and cheapest meal for families to provide to children. (I doubt breakfast clubs will be providing full English or other cooked breakfasts of the sort that one could argue families are hard-pushed to provide.)

So I don't see the compelling need. Why spend money on this of all things, when there must be other improvements that could be funded which would improve education specifically?

It would be better if they allowed parents to pay e.g 50p or £1 as a voluntary contribution towards it.

I think we will all remember kids who weren't nutured like they should be and having some milk and cereal could turn out to be the one healthy meal they have all day.

In my experience, there is stigma for the families. You'd be surprised by how any don't want the school to know how desperate the situation is at home.

@Mymanyellow

But that’s not poverty that’s bad parenting.

So, as a society, we're better for leaving that child to bear the consequences?

The children with neglectful parents are the children who could really do with a free breakfast. However, neglectful parents aren't likely to get up half hour earlier to get the children to school for the breakfast. I do agree it's a waste.

The idea in principle is brilliant. I just struggle to see how it can work in practice in terms of the actual logistics of running a breakfast club for the whole school (staffing, organising, buying and preparing the food and clearing up after the children in one half-hour slot at the start of the school day etc etc) and that's before you factor in the issues of whether some parents would manage to get their children in to school in time for breakfast club anyway.

I would actually rather see an extension of what our school offers - staff members have access to a stock of easy breakfast items (cereal bars etc) which can be given out discreetly to any children who come in to school hungry for whatever reason. So the option of some breakfast food is always there for those in genuine need whilst not wasting funding on the ones who get breakfast at home and don't need it.

I think the 'not poverty' point is more indicating at the suggestion that if the issue isn't cost, then a breakfast club won't fix it.

It's not about the breakfast, although it's an element.

It's the governement giving free childcare so that parents can have jobs/more employment options.

We need to stop demonising free childcare in this country. We have the most expensive childcare in all of Europe, parents are paying for it out of pocket, and being a parent takes a huge financial toll on people other than the very wealthy.

You see parents unable to stay in employment because there is no access to childcare or if there is, they cannot afford it. Skilled people constantly dropping out of the workforce, falling behind in life and relying on benefits to get by.

We need to stop normalising asking people to 'spend 2K a month on childcare or else'. If you don't want your child to go to breakfast club, nobody is making it compulsory, but it can make the difference for a single mum to be able to continue working and paying taxes or not.

Considering the low cost and the impact on putting parents into a position of being able to earn money for a living, the policy surely pays or itself.

"Percentage of income spent on childcare costs" graph provided for your convenience, source here: https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/03/06/childcare-puzzle-which-countries-in-europe-have-the-highest-and-lowest-childcare-costs

I don't think anyone's arguing that those children shouldn't benefit, though. My opinion was that I'd rather one of those children had a bigger and better breakfast rather than every child had a slice of toast, whether they'd eaten before they left home or not.

How are we going to have free childcare for shift/night workers. e.g NHS care homes.

Night workers are never thought of and just have to cope.

YANBU, this is not about funding breakfast for families who cannot afford it. I usually feed my daughter Sainsbury’s brand version of weetabix (“wheat biscuits” £2.79 for 48) with milk (£1.45 for 4 litres). I’ve just calculated it costs me 13.7p per meal. I’m sure I could find cheaper cereal or milk if I compared brands and shops etc if necessary to get it down even more. The vast majority of families can afford a normal breakfast. If children are not eating breakfast, it’s not because their families cannot afford it.

Families are struggling to care for their children properly because of a number of factors, not because they can’t afford to spend a few pence on breakfast cereal. I agree resources would be better spent supporting children and families in other ways.

I’d be angry that the resources weren’t being spent where they are needed most, rather than feeding kids whose parents can afford to.

The children that come in hungry, aren’t going to be the ones that come along to breakfast club. The ones using the now free breakfast club will be the ones already paying. This money they did pay, is the money I use to fed the children who didn’t get breakfast at home when they turn up to school at any point in the morning, they often haven't had breakfast and come in late not because there isn’t food but their home life if chaotic.

Money would be better spent getting a member of staff to collect them.

This is about getting mum working outside of school hours.

The problem at primary age though is that the parents who don't care about their child going into school hungry are not going to bring their child in early to get the breakfast.
Of those who do care and can't afford it, a fair number are struggling just to make sure they get their child into school on time, let alone early.

So it's something that looks like it might help, but the reality is that the majority of children for whom it would help won't get it.

They should be thought of. But we don't even offer a level of standard free/ heavily subsidised childcare in the UK that would enable a parent to work full-time in an average wage job without being massively worse off.

My European friends that have decided to start families have simply moved back to their original country as they find the raw deal and severe penalties that mums/dads get here for simply existing unimaginable and unmanageable.

Yet we seem to be telling ourselves that this is fine, everyone should pay, and if you can't work your life around the 9-3pm routine then tough luck.

We're so far away from this and we are actively protesting against more provision for parents here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21784716

Most public nurseries offer care from around 06:00 to 18:00. But with the numbers of parents working flexible or unconventional hours going up, local councils are increasingly providing overnight and weekend services.

In south-east Sweden, the small, former industrial city of Norrkoping is among those already leading the way in out-of-hours care. There are four council-run nurseries open overnight here, the first of which launched 20 years ago.

"I am a single mum and I wanted to go back to my job, which is at night," explains Maria.

There's no stigma for free lunches I say this from experience I had free lunches as a kid and my kids have them now. Nobody knows the parents order online even the school dinner ladies probably don't know. And when I was at secondary school everyone paid with their fingerprint so no one knew who had free meals.

Its been literal DECADES since kids got bullied for having free meals.

Sorry for the derail

It's not just about the food. It will be really good for families with children in different schools. But it needs to be properly funded or means tested.

@totototo I don’t think most on this thread not in support of the breakfast club programme are opposed to spending that money on supporting children and families who need it. I personally just feel that the money could be better spent in other ways.

I don’t know why you’ve phrased this as a bad thing?? I work and we have to pay for breakfast club currently. I’d welcome a subsidised breakfast club.

It’s a self serving look what we did exercise. There will be plenty of people that take the option up for the child care.

It would be a great idea if it was properly funded.

If schools are only going to be receiving 60p per child how will they fill the gap? Are they expected to fill it out of their own budgets? Will the fees for those paying for wraparound care in the non-funded period (ie from 7.45 onwards if the funded period starts from 8.15) increase to cover the gap, so working parents have to pay even more?

Are teachers and TAs expect to cover this period? Most teachers get into school early anyway to prep for the day, if they have to staff a breakfast club when do they get to do their prep work? If they get the time back during the school day, will it be a qualified teacher covering their class? If they don't get the time back at all and are just expected to so even more work at home, is this just going to lead to more stressed and overworked teachers?

I don't really see how it can be done without disadvantaging some people even further, and I said this as a single working parent who already uses wraparound care.

I do indeed! In Europe they do not start formal learning till 7.
And the teaching our children receive is based on a deeply flawed curriculum. It puts many children off school. And is repeated when they get to secondary school.
Childhood is a precious thing, and time spent eating breakfast together is valuable time.

You seem to have enough to say on this topic which presumably doesn’t concern you personally either. Surely people taking their children out of school for any reason that disrupts their education should concern fine upstanding citizens like yourself too? Surely you don’t reserve your judgement only for poor people? Because that wouldn’t be very nice would it?

I was on free school meals, we were given tokens to pay for our food, its also obvious on school trips as FSM children will be given a packed lunch by staff. At our school bullying against FSM children was awful and relentless.

Coke is really expensive. She wasn’t giving her that to save money.

It's more about the childcare than the food.

@cadburyegg , this is why schools chosen for the trial are already pulling out. There is £500 to set up, ie buy the crockery and £1000 from April to July for admin costs and then 60p per child per day so of course this won't cover any teacher participation and I agree the teachers then can't be in their classrooms during the set up time for the day.