To think that funding free breakfast clubs is wrong-headed?

[WaahWaahWinston]

Government is to fund free breakfast clubs for all primary school children. This doesn't strike me as the best use of money for schools; I imagine there are better things to spend money on that would be of greater educational benefit to children.

It may help a tiny proportion of families but breakfast is probably the easiest and cheapest meal for families to provide to children. (I doubt breakfast clubs will be providing full English or other cooked breakfasts of the sort that one could argue families are hard-pushed to provide.)

So I don't see the compelling need. Why spend money on this of all things, when there must be other improvements that could be funded which would improve education specifically?

@Mrsttcno1 You make it sound like ALL children are turning up to school starving and in all cases it's because of poverty. i.e. you're making it sound like if we don't have this policy, this is what will happen to all children.

And you seem to be implying that this policy (rather than any other policy e.g. food vouchers for parents or parenting classes or something) is the ONLY solution to prevent that outcome.

I'm just saying that I don't think the societal need is such as to warrant this particular policy, when there are better things to spend the money on in education. It certainly feels like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I'd have thought MOST families can afford breakfast and, as a previous poster asked, if not, then the benefits system needs looking at.

Well the money wasn't there in the first place. Someone came up with an initiative - 1 in 4 kids in the UK are in poverty. We need to encourage parents to go to work. Ah I know! Free breakfast club. Great. How are we going to fund it we don't have money. Let's tax someone else.

It wasn't the other way round - we think of taxing this group more, what shall we do with the money?

What programme would you launch instead?

Its the lack of honesty about it that people are objecting to.

You’d need to be using about 200ml of milk to get 150cals out of it, your 40g of oats would be absolutely swimming in milk.

And even then, it’s essentially a bowl of gloop with very little in the way of goodness, it might fill you but it’s certainly not fuelling your body particularly well. Where’s your protein, your fruit, your healthy fats etc in there?

A healthy balanced breakfast could be oats, milk, peanut butter with some fruit for example, but calling 40grams of oats swimming in milk just to hit calories a great breakfast option is madness

Congratulations you have just blown through the directed time allocation in schools. What are you willing to take out to make this extra teaching happen.

And I was with you until you did this the free breakfast is a cheap and easy way of getting brownie points from the electorate whilst getting parents in to work.
Very little to do with improving education at all.

Well the millionaire's kids are not generally going to state schools. And you'd be surprised. One of the most deprived schools in London is in one of the highest income per capita post codes. It's not the kids from the neighbouring £10m houses filling the classrooms.

Who is going to run them? Current teachers and LSAs don’t want to do it. I can’t imagine there are that many people who want to do it.

Well, most childcare policy is about making sure women (mostly) go out to work rather than stay idly at home rearing their own children. It's a win-win, more workers (so wages stagnate) plus more business for low-wage paying industries like nurseries. What's not to like?

Could part of the reason for breakfast club be maybe to alleviate the pressure on parents that might have other issues like a disabled child that requires more energy and attention that might not be the child receiving breakfast but possibly a sibling that needs taking/organising transport/medical appointments etc.
Breakfast club in this case might not be about finances but a little assistance with child care for a small amount of time.

what a jealous, sad, almost cruel post

I agree OP. There should be free Breakfast club for all pupils in receipt of FSM. Once in breakfast club , kids don't know who is there on the basis of FSM and who has paid so I don't think the argument of stigma applies. There'll probably be a lot of mums driving up in their SUVs etc, and dropping off their kids to go to the hairdressers and Zumba classes

So its already happening. Knew it.

Yes the trial is 60p per child, and 78p per child who is receipt of ppg. The school gets £500 to set it up and £1000 this year from April to July for running costs. Anyone who works in a school can see why schools are withdrawing from the trial as it won't cover the staffing and admin costs.

Great idea, children will socialise and eat together, this will promote cohesion - there are other areas to penny-pinch if you want savings.

I'm a TA in a primary school, and tbh the children that are turning up hungry without breakfast are the ones whose parents can't be arsed to get out of bed at a reasonable time to actually get their children to school on time and give them something to eat, so I don't see how having to get the kids there even earlier is going to work?! We do keep a stash of breakfast bars and fruit for any kids who are hungry when they arrive for this very reason.

Op, did you benefit from non means-tested free nursery hours? Same thing to me.

I didn't call it a great breakfast I only defended the 40g of oats, the correct amount of milk is 275ml, I do have it with fruit and a bowl of porridge will contain more protein than a bowl of cornflakes. 40g oats, 275ml milk makes a decent amount and is thick because the oats soak up the milk

edited to add spaces

The stats on child poverty in the UK are disgraceful but successive governments - Labour and Tory - have facilitated this, allowing wages to rot, encouraging housing insecurity and killing off social mobility. At some stage they're going to have to consider y'know taxing billionaires to pay for stuff.
"Poverty: facts and figures | CPAG" cpag.org.uk/child-poverty/poverty-facts-and-figures

I think it's a terrible idea. If there are people out there that can't afford to feed their children breakfast then that needs addressing and if there are people out there choosing not to feed their child breakfast then so does that.

Most parents can and do feed their children, so all their children don't need a free breakfast.

My point was shy should EVERY Londoner get it for free, imagine someone who's parents earn 100k gets free lunch because they live in London and someone who's parents earn 8k doesn't because they don't live in London. You see why I think it's bullshit?

The quality of the meals would be better if people who could afford to pay paid. Reception -year 2 everyone gets it free is it any wonder secondary school lunches are better than primary school lunches.

Personally I do think the threshold should be raised it's only less than 7.4k income at the moment maybe it should be more like 18-20 k

Imagine begrudging kids a free bowl of snide cornflakes in the morning 🙃

I assume (like many people) that this is more about childcare and getting women into work than feeding children. But if it does help hungry kids too, then I’m all for it too. Presumably you won’t be forced to send your children to it if you don’t want to.

Although if they’re only funding 63p per child then I’m not sure how it’s feasible for the school.

Our local high school has a breakfast club that’s supported by local charities. Mostly the food is donated. It supposedly makes a big difference to a lot of the children (deprived area) and everyone agrees that it being universal means that it has more uptake due to the lack of stigma.

I agree with you in a way. Children can't learn if they're hungry and if their parents are not able to/willing to feed them, then the school has to. It stands to reason that food should be available for some.

I'm not sure what percentage of parents are able and willing to give their children breakfast, but it seems a complete waste of money if those children are eating free food. Let's say it's 50-50 as to who actually needs a breakfast to be provided. I'd prefer it if those children who do need it had double the money spent on them and had higher quality food.

I'm also concerned that we're babying parents by saying they're not responsible for giving their children breakfast, but in the end I hate to think of children being hungry and not reaching their educational or health potential, so I think a good healthy breakfast and lunch is a good idea. I'm not convinced that's what's available, though.

I work in one of the most deprived areas in schools. I would love it if we could give everyone breakfast. There is nothing worse than hearing the child you are teaching’s tummy audibly rumble.

Breakfast club is for getting your child into school on time. It gives you a big time window instead of the "between 8.30 and 8.40" which means you can't get the 8.15 bus but you also miss the 8.30.
The reality of universal free breakfasts is that those who can afford it have their choice at home, those who don't are happy with the basic school offer.