To think that Europe needs to re-think its strategy now?

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 2025-02-28T19:21:23+00:00

We've tried the charm offensive in an attempt to exert some influence over Trump. I think both Macron and Starmer did as much as they possibly could. Sadly, today has shown us very clearly that diplomacy didn't work. We can't just bury our heads in the sand and pretend that we haven't noticed. So what on earth are we going to do next? We are living in truly terrifying times. I hope that our leaders will somehow manage to find a path through. I would not want to be in their shoes tonight.

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 19:30

I agree. It's terrible we've allowed ourselves to get into such a vulnerable position (although I do appreciate there's no way the public would have supported increased defence spending over the last 8 years, particularly when Putin-shills like Farage are such prominent voices).

We need a new defence partnership between the EU, non-member Euopean states (including Turkey) and probably look to China instead of US for military equipment (US equipment is often only functional with ongoing US support), with a view to developing our own in the longer term.

I do also think that we need to get the UK back into the single market (not full EU membership, though, I think that's too politically fraught).

I also think we need to consider banning Twitter, as it's clearly being used to advance the US's agenda and undermine European governments.

(For those wondering, yes, i did listen to TRIP yesterday!)

Original poster

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 28/02/2025 20:07

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 19:30

I agree. It's terrible we've allowed ourselves to get into such a vulnerable position (although I do appreciate there's no way the public would have supported increased defence spending over the last 8 years, particularly when Putin-shills like Farage are such prominent voices).

We need a new defence partnership between the EU, non-member Euopean states (including Turkey) and probably look to China instead of US for military equipment (US equipment is often only functional with ongoing US support), with a view to developing our own in the longer term.

I do also think that we need to get the UK back into the single market (not full EU membership, though, I think that's too politically fraught).

I also think we need to consider banning Twitter, as it's clearly being used to advance the US's agenda and undermine European governments.

(For those wondering, yes, i did listen to TRIP yesterday!)

Ah, I haven't caught up on TRIP just yet.

I imagine China must see a tremendous opportunity here.

I am very concerned about how it's all going to pan out.

OP posts:

TemporaryPosition · 28/02/2025 20:13

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 19:30

I agree. It's terrible we've allowed ourselves to get into such a vulnerable position (although I do appreciate there's no way the public would have supported increased defence spending over the last 8 years, particularly when Putin-shills like Farage are such prominent voices).

We need a new defence partnership between the EU, non-member Euopean states (including Turkey) and probably look to China instead of US for military equipment (US equipment is often only functional with ongoing US support), with a view to developing our own in the longer term.

I do also think that we need to get the UK back into the single market (not full EU membership, though, I think that's too politically fraught).

I also think we need to consider banning Twitter, as it's clearly being used to advance the US's agenda and undermine European governments.

(For those wondering, yes, i did listen to TRIP yesterday!)

I find it fascinating how traditionally it was the left who were the pacifists, who were against defence spending and armed conflict. This was the domain of the right wing, to have a strong military.

It's very interesting how this has somehow inverted. Kind of like when Covid first appeared it was seen as a racist conspiracy theory spread by terminally online rightoids. And now when you see someone wearing a mask you know they're a shitlib. I love musing about these things...

Dotjones · 28/02/2025 20:13

We need to become more insular and build up our defences. We need more nuclear weapons - a lot more. A much bigger army, navy and air force. It's at the point the government probably need to come up with a new 10% tax purely for "defence" and cut other spending to support it. We also need to train the general public in guerilla warfare and ensure citizens have access to firearms and know how to make improvised weapons. War is coming, probably sooner than we think. We don't have time to make all the preparations we need to, but we can go a long way towards making preparations closer to what they need to be.

coxesorangepippin · 28/02/2025 20:14

Yes china and Russia are rubbing their hands together

TemporaryPosition · 28/02/2025 20:20

Dotjones · 28/02/2025 20:13

We need to become more insular and build up our defences. We need more nuclear weapons - a lot more. A much bigger army, navy and air force. It's at the point the government probably need to come up with a new 10% tax purely for "defence" and cut other spending to support it. We also need to train the general public in guerilla warfare and ensure citizens have access to firearms and know how to make improvised weapons. War is coming, probably sooner than we think. We don't have time to make all the preparations we need to, but we can go a long way towards making preparations closer to what they need to be.

I agree. But no way will citizens have access to firearms, because the corrupt oligarchs who treat us with contempt as they strip mine our national assets know they'll be first against the wall

spuddy4 · 28/02/2025 20:22

Dotjones · 28/02/2025 20:13

We need to become more insular and build up our defences. We need more nuclear weapons - a lot more. A much bigger army, navy and air force. It's at the point the government probably need to come up with a new 10% tax purely for "defence" and cut other spending to support it. We also need to train the general public in guerilla warfare and ensure citizens have access to firearms and know how to make improvised weapons. War is coming, probably sooner than we think. We don't have time to make all the preparations we need to, but we can go a long way towards making preparations closer to what they need to be.

I don't want to pay any sort of taxes to fund another countries war. I also don't know where you think all these extra soldiers will come from, do you really want your kids embroiled in this because I certainly don't. We never ever learn from anything, how many more people will die from war when the main players sit tight and their families won't ever see the frontline.

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 20:23

TemporaryPosition · 28/02/2025 20:13

I find it fascinating how traditionally it was the left who were the pacifists, who were against defence spending and armed conflict. This was the domain of the right wing, to have a strong military.

It's very interesting how this has somehow inverted. Kind of like when Covid first appeared it was seen as a racist conspiracy theory spread by terminally online rightoids. And now when you see someone wearing a mask you know they're a shitlib. I love musing about these things...

Show quote history

Hi Justanotherlurker 👋 You forgot to use your "critical thinker" catch-phrase among your usual drivel.

Increasing defence spending to try and avert a war is not an endorsement of armed conflict, particularly given that the country has seemingly lost its most important and powerful strategic ally, throwing our national security into jeopardy.

And not everyone to the left fails to see the value in defence spending (particularly in times of geopolitical uncertainty), nor do I see the right arguing against it now - so I don't think the "inversion" that you're talking about exists.

TemporaryPosition · 28/02/2025 20:57

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 20:23

Hi Justanotherlurker 👋 You forgot to use your "critical thinker" catch-phrase among your usual drivel.

Increasing defence spending to try and avert a war is not an endorsement of armed conflict, particularly given that the country has seemingly lost its most important and powerful strategic ally, throwing our national security into jeopardy.

And not everyone to the left fails to see the value in defence spending (particularly in times of geopolitical uncertainty), nor do I see the right arguing against it now - so I don't think the "inversion" that you're talking about exists.

Show quote history

Hi Justanotherlurker 👋 You forgot to use your "critical thinker" catch-phrase among your usual drivel.

What does this mean? You think I'm a poster called Justanotherlurker? Well, I'm not. You can ask Mumsnet

Panterusblackish · 28/02/2025 21:03

Dotjones · 28/02/2025 20:13

We need to become more insular and build up our defences. We need more nuclear weapons - a lot more. A much bigger army, navy and air force. It's at the point the government probably need to come up with a new 10% tax purely for "defence" and cut other spending to support it. We also need to train the general public in guerilla warfare and ensure citizens have access to firearms and know how to make improvised weapons. War is coming, probably sooner than we think. We don't have time to make all the preparations we need to, but we can go a long way towards making preparations closer to what they need to be.

I do agree war is coming