Her daughter is probably on the spectrum. Help?

[BruhWhy]

Been thinking about posting this for a while, apologies if it's long.

I have a good friend, who is lovely, and whose daughter is very good friends with my DD - both in year 6, so 11 years old. Her daughter, let's call her Beth, is a really lovely girl. She's kind and funny. DD and Beth have been friends since reception, they struck up a friendship because her and DD are similar in a lot of ways - a bit shy, not into really "girly" things.

All was well until the last couple of years. As DD has matured in the way most kids do around this age, Beth hasn't. She still wants to play role-playing games like "families" or to pretend to be a cat. DD went along with these games for a while but started to try to gently suggest they do other things at break time, like play tag or football. This would make Beth cry, run away and hide. So DD stopped saying no, and played along with her, even though she felt embarrassed.

I spoke to my friend and after a talk with her DD, things got better. However, Beth now will not tolerate DD speaking to other friends, and will physically create a barrier between DD and other children, push her away from them with her body and talking to her loudly so she is forced to abandon her conversation. DD says when she says something about it, Beth will run away, hide and cry. She's very attached to DD and her mum has told me that when DD is ill at home for the day, she will often come home crying because she misses her.

From what DD tells me, and from what I've seen having spent lots of time around Beth, many social cues go over her head and leave other kids feeling uncomfortable. For example, when talking to someone, she will stand an inch away from them, almost nose-to-nose, and won't notice them backing away. My friend will see this too but doesn't say anything. She also struggles with volume control so is often standing close and shouting in children's faces.

She's also very literal. If someone makes a joke she'll not really get it, and when its explained she will laugh extremely loudly and for a very long time - which is absolutely fine, but other kids notice and look at her funny. I've seen this happen quite a bit.

I have very gently suggested that Beth may be on the spectrum, and have been met with a very polite but very forceful "absolutely not, she's just weird and wonderful like me"... and I've left it.

But they're about to go to secondary, very likely together, and DD is really worried that Beth's behaviour will a) get Beth bullied, and b) be very difficult for her to "manage" - DD says that a lot of her time at school is spent making sure people aren't horrible to Beth and trying to make sure she's included in things. I have emphasised tthis isn't her job and tried to encourage her to draw some boundaries but she worries about hurting her feelings and making her cry. It actually causes DD quite a bit of anxiety at times. It's something we're working on.

My older DD is autistic. This does NOT make me an expert, obviously, but I see so many traits in Beth that are so like my DD, that if at the very least acknowledged now will make life so much easier for her in the future.

I feel like I can't say anything though. My friend is very defensive about Beth, and it's a source of pride for her that she's, in her own words, "a little weirdo" - but DD isn't happy either and they're going to continue to be friends.

I don't know what to do, I know it's not my place. Do I just encourage the setting of boundaries and mind my own business? I consider Beth's mum a really good friend and nobody seems to be addressing her social issues.

Focus only on teaching and supporting your own child with boundaries. You can't do anymore. Problems will become more apparent in secondary school unfortunately. If the mum can't or won't see it, you can't do much. Best stay quiet unless she asks.

There is nothing you can do except support your own child. And be proud of her because she sounds like an absolutely lovely girl.

I have a friend the same, child struggling, won’t get him help because she considers him quirky and lovely.

it’s hard to watch alright.

Have you spoken to your friend about your older daughter, and about how autism in girls is different to the stereotype based on boys?
Also explain that an assessment takes around 3 years on the nhs waiting list now, so incase things become harder for her DD as a teen it might be worth putting her on the waiting list, and if it gets to the time of the appointment and she still doesn't think the assessment is needed she can decline it, but if her DD is then wondering if she is autistic herself at that age then she can get the answers she may want for herself without waiting another 3 years.

You can only support your child. It's possible/likely in secondary they went be in the same classes .

Urgh. So difficult.

FWIW your DD sounds like an absolute credit to you.

I think all you can do is teach your DD boundaries and that she doesn’t have to always make Beth her problem. It sounds like your friend is not in a place to consider ND, for both her and Beth, A lot of people aren’t until the wheels well and truly fall off, which sadly will probably happen to Beth in secondary school.

Is the secondary school big? Any chance of seeing if they could be in different forms?

Good luck with it all.

If Beth's parents don't want to see it or hear it then there's nothing you can do in that regard.

Do they have to go to the same secondary school? They might both be best served by having a little distance.

That's really sad. I do feel sorry for Beth. You yourself will appreciate how difficult it is for teenage girls on the spectrum. However as others have said, all you can do is help your own child. I think I would go into school and explain the situation and see if they can help. Perhaps the staff supervising at break and lunch can keep an eye out for this behaviour at lunch and step in.

I have yeah, and she sees how DD has struggled more as she's gotten older too. She doesn't see the parallels at all.

Their teacher has attempted to discuss some difficulties Beth's had with concentration and forming relationships but my friend was incredibly offended and didn't take anything on board. Then they got a new teacher and it was never mentioned again.

Keep talking positively about your old child's experiences so that your friend has an opportunity to connect with you if her position shift? If Beth has a tough transition, obviously the school will need to assess her SEND needs irrespective of whether or not she has a diagnosis.

Consider what you and your DD want for secondary. You can request they be in different tutor groups / halves of the year if you think your DD will be smothered by Beth.

Your daughter sounds amazing but it is too much for her to take on responsibility for another child's wellbeing. I would contact the secondary school and explain the situation and request that they are put in different classes and teaching groups. Hopefully, that will help your dd move away from her. I wouldn't necessarily tell your dd you've done this. Let her blame the school or she'll feel guilty for telling you.

Also, you speaking to the school might help alert them to look out for this other girl too.

Hopefully, the girls will make some new friends and spread the load a bit. This depency on your dd can't be good for her either.

I think you should speak to the school about how DD supporting Beth is impacting on her own social time. The school might be able to support Beth more.

Also if they go to the same secondary school request that Beth is not in the same form or same half of the year so that your DD gets to make her own friends away from having to be put in a position to look after Beth. If she wants to play with her and speak to her that is fine, but if she is not enjoying the friendship anymore then she is allowed to distance herself.

My eldest DD is also autistic and I recognise some of her traits in how you are describing Beth and also DD2 had issues with an autistic girl in her class who became very controlling around who she was playing with in her final year at primary. Unfortunately you can't force her Mum to recognise this or seek a diagnosis, all you can do is protect your own DD as much as you can.

This will be really difficult for your daughter. Especially the stopping of her making new friends. This is the time they are understanding how relationships work and you don't want her to think that stopping people from having other friends is normal. Can you come up with a strategy from the teachers where they are separated a little bit? It will be really hard for your daughter to put these boundaries in herself. They will likely be in different classes throughout the day at secondary anyway.

Your DD does sound lovely, but she needs to be able to make new friends, explore who she really is, and not feel forced into being responsible for her friend, who at this stage could be more of a burden than a friend.

I think she needs to be in a different class and you need to talk to the school - it doesn't have to be about whether the friend is ND, you can focus on the fact that she is smotheting your daughter and trying to stop her making any other friends.

I suspect that the friends mum will want them in the same class, and she may try to get you on board with this.

Yes, she definitely wants them together in secondary, and suggested we both call and ask for them to be in the same class. I did say that maybe being in different classes would be good for them, and that the girls can still be good friends, and to be fair she didn't push it.

I'm worried that she'll find out if I request they're separated though, do you think they'd keep that confidential if she calls and questions it?

In your position I'd be doing whatever I could to ensure the girls end up in separate classes. It's unfortunate because the wheels are clearly about to come off for Beth. However it isn't your daughter's responsibility to make sure Beth has a positive experience in secondary school.

Please contact the new school and make it very clear the girls need to be in different classes. Tell them you expect the other parent to request the girls are together but you insist they are not because of you dd being smothered and controlled. Don't make it about suspected autism keep it all about how it impacts your child.

I'm sure you can request they keep it confidential but I expect if the other mum has requested they are together and they are not and then school won't change her child's class then she will work it out. Accept you may loose a friend over this. That's the cost of advocating for your dd in this situation. The girls can still see each other out of school if the friendship continues.

Secondaries are usually really good at dealing with stuff like this and spend time gathering info from primaries well before September.

Speak to DD's teacher and ask for it to be recommended by the school for the girls to be separated in lessons at secondary. If they are doing their job effectively, they should start separating the girls now, so that it's not such a jolt in September.

I do think you need to help DD stand up for herself a bit better, OP. It's lovely that she is so protective of her friend, but she needs to see that it's OK to put her own wants and needs first sometimes.

Placing requests are kept confidential,

So the school will not say that you have asked for DD not to be with Beth.

In our area, the primary and secondary schools do get together to discuss transition and various issues around pupils. You need to have a frank conversation with your current school that you feel your dd needs to spend time apart from Beth. Your dd's needs are as legitimate and important as Beth's.

For both my DC, I requested that they not be in the same form as another child. In both cases the school put them in different halves of the year. I discussed it with the Y6 teacher both times, and they included it in a transition pack that gets shared with the secondary school.

The children and other families had no idea. They just spread the children from our primary around, so it didn't look odd.

Sounds like you and your daughter both need to try standing up for yourselves more, this isn't a very healthy friendship for your DD.

I wouldn't feel responsible for your friend and her daughter - she can worry about her child and you worry about yours.

1. schools job really to talk to parent about developmental issues. You tried, now stay out of it.
2. Your child is your focus. She cannot be responsible for another child’s happiness or success. Recommend what’s best for your child. If friend raises it you only need to say, on advice from school, and talking to DC, the decision was taken for her to attend XYZ school or program.

Those is an age where many children move in different directions. Mature faster etc. what you described with play happened in my DD class group in yrs 6/7/8 … some still wanting to pretend to be ponies at lunch break. Some now at 16/17 have caught up, some still really immature, some possible ND or MH, or seem impacted from difficult home situations.

Do what’s best for yours. You can navigate your friendship separate from your children’s. It’s OK for you to say “my DC, seems to be moving in another direction. Or seeking a wider friend group, or more interested in sports” … its100% ok.

I think you need to stop speculating about whether Beth is autistic and start role-modelling some proper boundaries for your DD. Your DD is being controlled and emotionally blackmailed by another child. And if you aren’t able to speak up and say you think it would be better for your DD to have some space and to allowed to expand her friendship circle at secondary school, you are being controlled in exactly the same way by Beth’s mother.

The school will not tell Beth’s mother about any call you make to the school about classes. But I think you need to step up and tell Beth’s mum that you’re concerned about the obsessive/possessive nature of Beth’s attachment to your DD and you would rather they were in different classes.

Beth’s possible neurodivergence is not for you to worry about. Your DD, who currently spends her days being controlled by her ultra-possessive and emotionally needy/manipulative friend and is being effectively barred from forming healthy friendships with other kids, is for you to worry about.

I think my close friends child is autistic

I also think that both she and her husband would be massively offended if I said anything whilst to me it's always been obvious since she was small. Excuses for lack of expected behaviour have always been made as "It's just how she is" I think there is some serious denial going on.

It's very difficult because they are treating her behaviour like it's teen years and to be expected but I don't think it is necessarily

At the end of the day it's their child, their business