To think I’m too nice to be regarded as good at my job?

[Namechangersanonymous]

I’m in a professional position. Doing well. In professional exams, I’ve been in top few.

I think I produce really good results, and appear to compare favourably with my peers. I’d say I outperform most people at my level.

But feedback I get consistently focuses on how well liked and likeable I am ( this is not a stealth boast btw!).
obviously that is not a bad thing, but I’m rarely praised for doing good work - even though I think I do.

by contrast, whenever people talk about a particularly toxic colleague, they always say he’s really effective but…

The takeaway I get from my feedback is that I’m nice but not particularly good at my job. I almost feel like saying ‘she's popular with colleagues’ is a way of avoiding saying I’m a bit crap at work. I’d really like to see some feedback that talked about my achievements.

Id also add that I remember being on a training course with a very ‘nice’ woman. She was highly qualified, but people were surprised when she scored particularly highly in a test- it was like the whole room had written her off as a bit dim. ( she was one of these Oxbridge, scholarship winning, highest A level results in country types if you asked her about her qualifications)

so should I dial down the ‘niceness’? Is it damaging to your career to be seen as a ‘lovely’ person?

I always found it a positive, I'd be recommended for jobs etc. when getting the feed back have you stated "but what about my work?"

Ime soft skills and emotional intelligence have become more valued in the workplace over the years. Ask for feedback on your actual work.

How much is 'niceness' important to the job?

E.g. is a caring, supportive role, do you need to do lots of teamwork etc?

Or is it more about closing deals fast, making on point technical decisions etc?

Only then can we say whether or not "niceness" is a determining factor in your feedback.

I agree with this approach.

Please continue to be nice. I’ve worked with vile people and it’s horrible.

You can be nice and good at your job, absolutely! Don't dial back the niceness.

But if the feedback you're getting is all that you're nice and lovely and nothing about the job can you ask for it in a different way to get a more detailed response? So ask "how did I perform in x project?" and "what was your view on x initiative?" rather than "how am I doing?"

I'm (I think!) nice but have had a successful career.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, you can be nice and good at your job. I've always found it a positive, generally those who are nice and good at the job get the recognition and promotions as it helps to be likeable. Those who are good but who aren't likeable don't get as far.

Are you nice or kind and just op? A "nice" manager will take any work thrown at her team and will sympathise with them for their high workload. Maybe buy them a drink to say thank you. A kind and just manager will say no, push back and hold people to account.

This is helpful way to look at it. I’m dealing with clients, so while it’s a ‘closing the deal’ environment ( which I do) the ability to build relationships is very important.

I think I need to focus more on asking what about my work.

I do get recommended for roles by people, so I suppose it’s helpful.

maybe they just assume that most of my colleagues can do a good job, so personality is important for team dynamics

I think it depends a bit on the form that your 'niceness' takes.

I do think that for all people, and especially for women, certain aspects of or types of niceness can lead to other qualities getting overlooked. For example, I have a tendency to go out of my way to be friendly and maybe a bit self-deprecating at work because I'm worried about coming across as 'up myself', and want to seem approachable and down to earth. I also share quite openly when I'm finding things difficult with a client in the spirit of promoting honest discussions between all of us about sharing ideas and helping one another out. I've realised that some people take this as a sign of weakness though and assume I'm less intelligent or competent than I am as a result. If I bullshitted and acted like I have an answer to every problem and my job is easy, maybe people would look up to me more?

Niceness can obviously be a problem in leadership roles too. Again, it depends on the form it takes. Someone I was managing once didn't do some important work on time and told me that he had known I would step in to cover for him because I'm 'lovely like that', then recommended I consider reading a management book about assertiveness! It was humiliating but I learned so much from this encounter (the guy was already leaving his role and had his reference so just didn't care, which I suppose freed him up to be brutally honest with me).

I have since looked at lots of great stuff about compassionate assertiveness as an approach to ensure niceness does not go along with being a mug!

It doesn't sound like you ARE a mug by the way, and I realise the above examples might not apply to you at all, but I suppose it might be interesting to reflect on what people find nice about you and whether any aspects of this might be doing you a disservice.

It depends what you do. Being 'nice' is probably an asset if you work in public relations, less so if you are a prison warder.

I have always been overlooked at work. I think because I just crack on and do the work, without supervision and with self-set targets, no fanfare, no fuss, I'm under valued. Contrasted with this, some staff are very keen on trumpeting their abilities and playing the game. So even though their results are no better than mine, and at times are actually worse, they get the kudos.

There is also the old boys and the middle class network of course. Those who fit the mould are always going to get acknowledgement. Unfair but it is the way it is. As an older woman, I'm assumed to be coasting to retirement when the very reverse is true, but it's hard to break that stereotype when evidence is ignored (deliberate I think - discrimination).

Maybe the two of you complement each other then? You build the rapport and he gets it over the line?

I'd say that people wouldn't describe me as nice, but they wouldn't describe me as nasty either. I get words like passionate, knowledgeable, efficient.

So whilst "nice" doesn't hold you back, I think those are the sorts of words you should aspire to add to your list of descriptors - alongside nice!

This is really useful advice. I think that personal warmth can be seen as lacking authority. And there have been studies on it.

I’ve also been the same - trying to be honest and open. Have always owned mistakes etc, but I don’t think it’s a good move if you’re a woman.

I remember someone saying women should never bring in baking for their team- as it erodes their authority. ( I’m a crap baker so never a problem for me)

im definitely going to work on different management styles!

I once had a female manager who DID bring in baking and we still very respected by her mostly male employees, so I think there are no hard and fast rules... but I think she got away with it because she was otherwise absolutely terrifying. The baking sort of 'softened' her enough for the men not to see her as solely an 'icy bitch' (real phrase I've heard a male colleague use about a different female manager).

Urgh, it is hard to win.

If people have bad feedback then your manager would usually let you know, which suggests you're doing fine but they want to make the point that you excel at personal skills. What do you need the feedback for? It looks like a very junior attitude to ask for specific feedback; you should know if you did a good job or not by whether the deal was signed. Better to be specific; if it's about bonus then ask what else you need to do for a bigger bonus. If it's for promotion, then just ask what you need to do to be promoted.

Surely you can't be nice all the time?

What happens when you need to assert your authority or during a challenging conversation?

Can you hold your own, assert your boundaries and get what you need to deliver? Are you meeting / exceeding your KPIs?

In my organisation- the feedback intensifies the more senior you are. They are very hot on senior management performance which I think is a good thing because that’s the people steering the ship.

we do get executive coaching and I have discussed this with my coach, but was interested in gathering wider views as I definitely feel women are perceived differently.

As @Greywarden points out, it’s a difficult balance. How many men Have you known to be described as an ‘icy bitch’ ?

Of course I’m asserting my authority. And I’m very good at challenging conversations because I’m collaborative rather than combative.

It’s far more nuanced than completely ineffectual, but nice or super effective but cold.

your post highlights the issue imo. And it’s about perceptions rather than hard facts like meeting objectives. The fact that despite being a high achiever at work, the main takeaway I get is that I’m a well liked manager.

I may be overthinking it as people skills are hugely important. As other pps have pointed out being likeable gets you roles.

my point is that despite exceeding goals, and achieving objectives people make assumptions about people’s effectiveness on issues other than hard facts. I think being a woman is a huge factor and that’s why I wanted to post for views on here to see if it resonated with other women.

it’s like the study that showed people are more likely to die in female named hurricanes because they aren’t taken a seriously

I agree, but I do think C suite like to know you can also, sometimes, be not nice.

There's a difference between being liked and being respected.

Being seen to have the ability to operate above a snr. Manager level, whilst being a snr. Manager.

It also depends on the culture of the company you work for.

Do the higher ups have similar attributes to you, which probably means you're a good cultural fit. Or do they show up with less 'nice' behaviours and are curious to see if you can emulate that?

(Edited to say I couldn't tell from your OP if you were nice but ineffectual or nice and effective).

Could I suggest reading nice girls don't get the corner office? It might ring true, it might confirm a few things, might give you a few pointers.

I will read this. I remember reading a similar article about why women don’t get ahead, and think I’d made most of the ‘mistakes’

@Notsuchafattynow I think it’s an overall positive that I’m liked as the culture is very much about being inclusive and supportive of colleagues.

But agree that I may need to work on showing that it doesn’t mean I can’t make difficult decisions.