ChatGPT taught in schools?

[Biscuitsformeandyou]

Hi all, my primary aged DC is learning how to code simple games at school. ChatGPT/other models can generate the code for this immediately upon request. Do you agree that children should be taught how to best interact and utilise ChatGPT-like tools as this is inevitably the future?

The educational value is learning to do things for themselves.

Learning how to use chatgpt or similar models is itself a skill.

Im as luddite as they come but even I have reluctantly allowed the use of chatgpt and similar in the right circumstances. I'm ferocious about not just using it to cut and paste an essay but as a starting point it can be useful and it can also create resources for learning. AI won't go away and it's not "cheating" if used correctly.

In which case they should learn to build the computers and write machine code, not cop out by using a programming language someone else has developed on a computer and OS someone else hss built.....

Learning to code requires a level of understanding and mental development that using AI doesn't.

If used correctly can be a very useful tool.

It's useful to understand the code so that if chat GTP produces errors, you know why, instead of blindly assuming it's correct.

Education is about learning to think not about vocational skills training especially not at primary school.

When a child learns maths or coding they are learning to construct a logical argument, solve problems and to model a problem abstractly

When a child writes an essay they are learning to weigh up different pieces of evidence and construct a coherent argument or train of thought

When a child translates a passage from a foriegn language they are learning about how the structure and syntax of language works.

If they use chat gpt to do these things their capacity for thought will not develop.

They're not in a university. Coding requires logical thinking. That's where the value is.

I am all for a bit of "prompt engineering" BUT how do they know the results are correct?
Are they taught the whole process?
Surely the outcome of primary education should be the 3Rs, although I horrified my SIL about 15 years ago, by suggesting that the elite, in future, would be those that could read and write!

Higher up they use both, but in gcse computer science they need to know coding but when learning they can use ChatGPT to check or suggest coding tweaks. It’s good to practise both and knowing what to put in ChatGPT also requires foundational understanding of what you want to achieve and the processes involved. AI in itself is easy to use if you know what to ask and could replace a huge amount of maths and other subjects.

But the reality is that children are generally taught things which they will not need, such as the ins and outs of grammar and coding. I totally agree about the need to develop independent critical thinking, but there are so many better ways than forcing kids to learn things that are obsolete

Well they should learn computer science to understand how the modern world works and learning a high level programming language is a great method of illustrating and exploring data structures and algorithms as well as developing problem solving skills. I actually think that a little bit of assembly code when learning about the processor is no bad thing and it is certainly on the a level specification.

I do agree that scratch whilst fun is arguably a gimicky waste of time though happy to be persuaded otherwise.

Yes, the people that will make best use out of generator ai will be those with the underlying subject knowledge and critical thinking skills to guide and asses the output. But it seems likely that these models will be able to generate highly accurate code within the next few years (probably a lot sooner).

I very much doubt that computer science is obsolete. Though I guess it will suit American tech companies if only a couple of thousand people working for them understand anything about it and it looks like magic to everyone else.

It’s problem solving, trial and error, keyboard use etc not just a means to an end. They should also learn AI too though. But they spend several lessons logging in successfully saving a document, losing work etc. They’re used to tapping logos on a touchscreen.

How do you get that underlying knowledge if not from early exposure and a spark of interest?

Sure, they could be taught the theory and coding principles, that would make sense. But they are being taught via Scratch which isn't teaching first principles.

I don't think I agree because although these tools probably are here to stay, it is vital that children learn to use their actual brains. Also if humans lose the ability to think and problem solve, we won't even know if the AI outcomes are plausible. There is some research showing that the hippocampus part of the brain is losing function because of the use of sat nav rather than maps so I imagine the consequences will be similar long term.

I am somewhat in agreement with you about scratch.

Really every principle in the software side of computer science is best illustrated through code. I have often thought it could be used to teach maths too.

Of course you can study things through english or mathematical notation but it isnt much fun and doesnt make as much sense.

I don’t think grammar is obsolete at all. It is immensely useful to understand the patterns that make language(s) work. It helps with foreign language learning, coding and general logic.

My son (16yo) uses ChstGPT regularly. He used it to create flashcards for his GCSEs (specific to the exam board). He also recently used it to find exercises to do his own physio on an injury (he hurt a tendon his elbow arm wrestling). The doctor basically said to come back 3 months after injury if wasn't better and then he would refer him. The doctor who saw him at minor injuries said it would take 1 month to heal. DS wasn't willing to wait 3 months before a physio referral so after 5 weeks he started his own exercises.

I think education teaches you to:
A. Use resources well - know what to use, how to use, when to use
B. How to formulate ideas, create arguments, think logically etc.

ChatGPT is mostly the former, though you do need to know what to ask it.

Scratch teaches core programming concepts such as variables, conditionals and loops. Asking ChatGPT to write you a program does none of those.

People still need a basic understanding of the concepts in order to check code, and they will be able to use chat gpt more effectively if they have an understanding of the why and the how.
It's like saying we don't need teach addition, subtraction etc because we can just use calculators to do it.
Even if we eventually do go down the road of not having to teach coding like this, there almost certainly needs to be a much bigger overlap as llms and other ai are still relatively new.

Sorry @Biscuitsformeandyou I quoted the wrong post.