To consider reporting this as racist?

[puttynomo]

I'm a trainee teacher and just started in my second placement. Induction day training was about unconscious bias relating to a student survey in which pupils had reported various acts of racism in the school.

We were in random assigned teams and my team had about 7 people in, one other new guy (black). The task was to discuss a number of scenarios relating to race such as mixing up the only ethnic minority students names or a pupil reporting racism from a staff member, we were meant to discuss what we'd do in these scenarios, but basically immediately these two older women (one in particular) and a man immediately started on the defensive minimising it all, saying stuff like

'I get white kids mixed up all the time or kids that are ginger, I'm not racist, some kids have a certain look like Irish kids and I get them mixed up it's not racism' then they mocked being accused of racism when they said some of the black kids behaviour was atrocious and they deserved to be removed (one of pupil complaints was unfair targeting).

This carried on and nobody else including me could get a word in. The black guy was inbetween them and said nothing. Then the worst comment of all said by this one particular woman who'd been speaking about black pupils with complete derision the whole time she said

'What if it's just a cultural thing that black people are so aggressive, the way they speak' further justifying her removing them etc. I was actually shocked and at this point it was back to the main speaker. I had no chance to speak to the other guy but later found out it was his first day as well. My mentor was next to me and said nothing.

I felt so uncomfortable and shocked about this and it's still really bothering me. I saw the black guy in the staff room today he sat on his own and didn't speak to anyone I meant to try and speak to him but didn't get a chance.

What's the best course of action here? Was it racism? Should I speak to him and say anything? Should I report it? It's difficult as I've only just met everyone and my mentor and I don't know who those other people were. AIBU to think that this should be reported so this staff member can be spoken to? I'm shocked she is confident enough to say these things and then teaching children.

This was not just clumsy wording even referring to 'their culture' next to a black person whilst silencing them and treating them as invisible is so wrong and it was accompanied by face pulling, clearly she just took the opportunity to talk about black pupils in a derogatory way.

In my report I said this demonstrates racial prejudice and negative stereotyping of black people who were characterised as a homogenous entity.

I have observed and noticed myself that ethnic minority pupils seem to be more sensitive to this and it can be perceived as pointed. I've not ever observed it being intentional but I do think it warrants a sincere apology and careful effort not to do it again.

They're not in my department and I'm only at the school until summer (plus I think I benefit from a layer of protection as trainees status) however i do think it's a sad state of affairs that concerns like this would be ignored because of backlash.

To the poster who said this isn't racism, please explain why?

With all due respect, there's a huge difference between accidentally calling Mary "Sue" and the sort of race-related name issue that is often talked about. I get my own children's names confused sometimes but that's not the same as genuinely thinking that Mohammed is actually Ali. And it's disingenuous not to acknoledge that.

Similarly with spelling of names. Just because "mary" is easier for you to spell, doesn't justify you struggling to spell the name of the Polish child or whatever.

Please speak to your union. They will have legal support to help you with this.

On on the Japanese can't tell white people apart thing. Absolutely if you are used to only dealing with people of one ethnicity it can initially be hard to tell people of another ethnicity apart because if (eg) you're only used to being around white people you probably subconsciously use a combination of hair type, colour and eye colour to identify someone, but you transplant yourself to a classroom in Japan and suddenly there aren't material differences in hair type, colour and eye colour (yes of course there are outliers). Initially yes you find it more likely to mix someone up but very very quickly you adjust and start subconsciously using other features. I've been in this exact situation and it was an issue right at the beginning, but very quickly I adapted. Interestingly, DC when in pre-school/reception went to a school where there were very few white children (and we lived in a country where the vast majority of people were non white. We changed her school to a school that had majority white children (just chance - we moved cities!) and on day 1 she came home complaining she couldn't tell any of the girls apart and saying all white people look the same 🤣 (she's white British).

But all of this is an excuse why if a teacher has no experience with children of Pakistani descent and for the first time is teaching a class with four boys of Pakistani descent that initially they might get Ali and Mohammed mixed up. It's not an excuse past about week 2, and it's not an excuse if the teacher has been teaching for a while in a school based in Dewsbury!

Of course it was racist. Do enlighten us as to how teacher saying that 'What if it's just a cultural thing that black people are so aggressive, the way they speak' isn't racism.

Glad you reported it OP. It's bloody awful - people are so much more openly racist these days, it terrifies me.

I am terrible at mixing kids' names up in class though. Nothing to do with race, hair colour or sex! All to do with menopause.

This carried on and nobody else including me could get a word in.

Nah I'm not having that.

Of course you could get a word in. I'm sure you would've managed if they were being racist about your child.

YABU to 'consider' reporting it.

Of course you should and it's depressing that you have to ask.

I accept I could and should have done better and I feel awful about that. I think the reason I didn't was because this was the morning session of day 1 at my placement and I was next to my mentor. That's not an excuse but I did try to interject in the first part but they just talked over me and I would never normally tell someone to be quiet and force my voice (these were a lot older women and presumably experienced teachers, I'm a trainee). The last comment I literally was floundering for words and gobsmacked and I did start to say you can't say that but the training leader called everyone's attention so the room went quiet but yes I do agree.

Wow, wow, wow! I say that but I've seen, heard and experienced this many times. Its sadly not uncommon for teachers to have these views.

The black guy probably didn't speak up because he knows that this will feed into the stereotype that they already have. He will be labelled the "angry black guy". He probably experienced this in school or known others who have. Reason being that this has been happening for years and isnt uncommon. I dont blame him for sitting alone. He probably doesn't know who he can trust and doesn't want to be a target. I've done the same many times.

What's uncommon is people, like yourself, who are willing to speak up against it and report it.

This level of racism, unconscious bias is rife in society and certainly in schools and the racism that black & mixed race students and teachers encounter is often very subtle. So, it easily gets dismissed or goes unchallenged because its your word against the collective "theirs".

Very disappointing that your mentor just sat there. In their position they should know and do better.

If it were me I'd have fed it back in the session, eg; "In our group we were discussing.... and it was said.... What's your thoughts on this?"

People like that need calling out. The fact they had the audacity to say what they said publicly is one thing. But to say it in front of a black person means they know that they can and will get away with it. Its seen as normal and OK to speak in this way and have those views.

Good on you for speaking up or trying to, as it sounds like they tried to silence you.

"The staff you are referring to, know the pupils and you do not. Is she referring to one or two specific individuals? Has she been attacked? Threatened? You don't know what she has had to deal with."

That doesn't make it ok for the teachers to be making racist comments because they have bad experiences in the classroom.

Her bad experiences are probably down to the fact that she's coming in with a racist mindset and already labelling pupils as "aggressive" before they even open their mouth.

These kind of responses is the reason why teachers like that have gotten away with this for so long.

Oh my GOD OLDER WOMEN!!! Dared to say they mix up kid faces and one of them pulled an actual face?!!!! Quick, Winston, call the thought police!!!!

This is soooo funny, you should definitely report it so they know you are a total bampot. They will do nothing because there is NOTHING at all they can do, you and the thought police would LOVE so much to have the right to punish people for speaking words, but you can't and nothing they said even comes remotely close to being a punishable or reportable offence.

They will laugh at you and do nothing but you will have given them a good idea of who you are, a good little member of the Red Guard :D

@thisistoofunny I would be very careful with your words. What the OP has described are the daily microaggressions that people of colour face in all aspects of life in the UK. As an ex-teacher, one of the reasons that I left the profession was due to the bigoted, racist attitudes and the bullying of black and brown students by many of my colleagues. Fortunately something is done about it as more and more POC are calling out racism and pursuing grievances.

So you carry on as a keyboard warrior but maybe hold your tongue at work, before they boot you out 😂

That was horrible to read, so it must have been awful to have been there.

In regards to your black colleague, I wouldn't mention it to him because that could make him feel really awkward and 'othered' but make an effort to speak to him and be friendly in general.

Is there a reason you bumped this thread from February?

OP was only going to be at that school until summer and it's August so she's left now.

ZOMBIE THREAD

Didn't you read the thread? If you had, you would have realised that, contrary to your prediction, the complaint was (rightly) taken seriously. You could have save yourself looking a bit of a dick.

Are you sure you are not just trying to score points at the expense of your "less enlightened" colleagues?

This was sad to read but OP, I'm not surprised. We should discuss racism in school from all angles. I used to be a secondary school teacher nearly 20 years ago in London. Two fellow teachers in my department said they both experienced racism from children and their parents during training at different schools outside of London. One was black and from West Africa, the other was from Greece. Both agreed it's the parents that are the problem but looks like teachers too from your experience.

Please report it. All the schools I went to had a predominantly white teaching body who openly said such things (just insert "Asian" instead of "Black"). They clearly resented teaching non-white pupils, their comments were seen as acceptable, and no one pulled them up on it. That took place 15-25 years ago. Nothing has changed.

Zombie thread OP doesn't work there any more

That's awful. They clearly need diversity training.

It wasn't so long ago. Even if they've left, the OP can, and should, still report it.