Philosophical "how do we split finances?" one

[DrowningInApathy]

So, I frequently see advocated on here "you pay expenses proportionately to your earnings, and so you have the same spends afterwards".

So, supposing I earn 5k/mth after tax and partner earns 1k. So by this logic I pay 83.5% (5/6ths) & he pays 16.5% (1/6th).

Suppose all the bills/housing/food are about 2k/mth. So I pay £1666, and he pays £334.
And that leaves me with about 3.3k, and him with about £666.

If we lived separately, we'd each pay about £1500/mth all in, because the housing and utility costs don't change much, and the food bill would split. (and yes, his income doesn't cover his expenses in that case without him taking on more work)
So separately, I'd have £3,500 left, and he'd have minus £500 (ie £500/mth shortfall/debt)

I don't have children.
He has one, which he has 50/50.
We will not have children together.
We have both been working for ~20 years and chose our careers.
We made our life choices independently, so neither has impacted the other's earning capability.
I pay for going out, holidays, most of the "optional" spends.
We aren't married and don't intend to, and don't have joint finances, but are committed.
We both own the house.

So,

1. Am I supposed to give him an additional £1300/mth of my salary to "even things up"?

1. If so, why, given we both independently made our own decisions as to careers, and neither of us has impacted the earning ability of the other.

1. I am already slightly worse off by living with him. Which is fine, no issues with that. But in the scenario where I also even up the spends, I would be £1500/mth worse off from living with him compared to living separately. But he would be £2500 better off, and would then have twice as much disposable as he actually even earns in a month.

I think having a 5:1 split, and me paying for the optional fun stuff, is fair.
I wouldn't think it fair to be giving him a big additional chunk of my salary on top.

What do you think is fair, and why?

YABU: Pay him the extra
YANBU: Paying 5x as much of the living expenses is fair.

I guess the underlying assumption is that you care about your partner as much as yourself and therefore would want him/her to have as much disposable income as you? So "fair" doesn't come into it. But I come from a set up where from very early on we pooled our money and didn't have separate finances at all. Initially he earned more (in fact I was still a student) and now I do, but we've never had to change anything.

No you don't have to give him anything. Whether you want to pay for fun stuff is up to you.

Different answer if you had children together and one of you had reduced hours to care for them.

People only really talk about joint pots when children are involved or when the discrepancy is huge and not really justified. By not justified, I mean that both partners work the same hours in jobs that are very similar just one industry pays more.

When my husband and I didn't have kids we still split things so we had equal spends because we both worked the same hours, he just happened to be in a more lucrative field. I actually had more qualifications, my job was more stressful, I did more unpaid overtime and I worked a lot harder in my core hours (teacher vs IT contractor), so it didn't seem fair for him to have so much more than me.

If I'd been earning less completely through choice (eg part time just because I wanted to, choosing not to advance, taking an easy role that paid less etc) then we would have just split bills proportionately and he'd have had more cash than me.

I share everything with DH, I earn 3x what he does. However, we’ve been together since we both earned the same and he earns well (just not as well as me).

If we split for whatever reason I wouldn’t do the same with a new man (I wouldn’t live with one at all), DH gets this deal because he’s supported my career (not particularly to the detriment of his own, he couldn’t earn much more) and were a team.

I wouldn’t share my money with someone earning 1k after tax as it suggests they’re either working PT or on less than minimum wage. I might treat them to stuff or pay more bills but no way would I even up the spends in the way I would for DH.

How did he manage financially before he met you? Does child maintenance come out of his outgoings?

I don't think I'd be wanting to live with someone that desperately if I was in your position, certainly not giving him money on top of paying the majority of the bills.

I agree with this. OP, you're already significantly subsidising him. How did he afford to support himself and child before he met you??

It's difficult, as presumably the property you are sharing/places where you shop etc is likely to be much nicer than he would have paid for by himself - on £1k per month take home he is presumably living with family or housesharing.

You could consider a legal agreement that you pay the mortgage and any household expenses associated with the house such as renovation/ new boiler etc and that he pays a share of the living expenses (including utilities), but that he will have no claim on the house if you split up, if such a thing is possible. individual items such as furniture/appliances/holidays are a joint discussion, but realistically if you want to buy a £3k sofa he isn't going to be able to match your input, and even proportionately, that's going to be lots more than he pays if you bought a sofa from Argos.

I'd suggest that he pays the standard stuff for his child i.e. kids furniture for their bedroom/clothes, although I'd hope that you might chip in a bit with things (personally I'd buy some nice furniture) such as activities, probably not regular clothes buying, but definitely occasional clothes/shoes, and definitely holidays

You are asking the wrong question.

I’m assuming he is an adult in his 40s ish.

Why isn’t he worried?
Why isn’t he thinking about later life finances?
Why isnt he thinking about how his daughter might need him?
Why isn’t this imbalance prompting him to worry about being fair to you?

Finances are not very romantic, but it’s absolutely fair and normal to ask these sorts of questions. The trouble is that you shouldn’t have to ask them if you are in a relationship with grown adult.

Exactly that is under full time minimum wage

but I agree marriage and children change everything so in this instance it is fine

Thanks all for the input.

You are mixing up two concepts, both of which can be “fair” in different circumstances.

1. pay proportionally. That recognises that while you are both responsible for your own level of earnings, you have jointly chosen your standard of living based on your joint salary. So you will have more disposable income, but he’s not having to get into debt to “keep up” with you.

2. same personal spending. Fair when one person cannot earn more due to a joint decision, most commonly children. So one person is no longer able to have control over their income, in which case it’s not fair for them to have less to spend.

in your case, I’d go with 1. No need to top him up.

Meant to add that we do option 3, which is “bung it all in one account and spend what you want”. But that REALLY only works when you have plenty of money and relatively similar spending habits, otherwise I’d certainly get resentful very quickly indeed.

Why different?

The "shared pot"/even spends approach is only relevant where there are children and one partners career potential takes a hit because they shoulder most of the burden of the children, allowing the other partner to continue to get promoted etc unheeded.

I find it odd when women these days who've had the same educational opportunities as men, think they are entitled to choose a low responsibility, crappily paid career, and expect a higher earning man to share his money with her, even where there are no kids involved,or there are kids but the high earner does his share of childcare.

You have no children together and he hasn’t sacrificed his career or salary to raise your children, so why top up his earnings, fuck that. Be generous but not mug.

Why is it different standard the man is earning more vs if the woman is earning more? I’m hoping this is sarcasm/poking fun at the standard Mumsnet responses?

OP, I’ve never seen people talk about “paying their partner” so there is an even amount of spending money. Surely that’s the same outcome as pooling all your money and each getting a set amount of spending money.

if you are going proportional, my understanding has always been that household bills are split proportionally and whatever is leftover is yours and his to keep/spend as you choose.

ive never seen it done the way you’ve outlined.

Before I got married, we just both contributed the same amount to a joint account each month (not taking into account differences in income). After kids, it’s all pooled money and we each get a set amount of spending money each month. So I’ve never done the proportional thing.

No your theory at the start is for a couple with shared DCs where the woman has taken maternity leave and the career hit for their joint DCs.

Your situation is very different.

TBH you should probably still keep separate properties. Eg have a btl you don't live in.

He's very likely to slide into being a cocklodger

Are you counting CMS in his expenses?

His dc is not your responsibility at all.

The mumsnet approach to this summed up nicely

Everyone makes their own decisions in life. When you are with someone who you love and make a lifetime commitment to, it feels natural to share. That doesn't necessarily mean handing over money, but having equal say in high cost expenditure and equal availability to savings pots. You seem quite sure that you do not want that deep a commitment, and are very critical of your partner's choices, so in one of these "together for a season" type of relationships it would be foolish of you to give up your future savings for him. I'm sure there are good reasons to hang onto the relationship for now, but be wary that you walk away when you're ready rather than both of you clinging on acrimoniously when the respect has already gone between you.

Well - it depends. Do you want to live in the sort of place he could afford if you both earned his wage? And make the same decisions (car, no holidays, food decisions) you would make in those circumstances?

If so, fine. You will have a big heap of cash in no time. And he will be able to afford his lifestyle.

But if you wish to live in a place more in accordance with your own salary, he will be in debt in no time (and pretty miserable, with no disposable cash at all) if you try to make him maintain a lifestyle he cannot afford - and wouldn’t be attempting to afford - were he not in a relationship with you.

It’s having joint children that changes it especially if the woman goes PT or becomes a SAHM. Traditionally men were almost always the higher earners. Overall men still earn more but I can think of 2 couples where the woman earns significantly more than the man.

I wouldn’t be subbing someone to that extent so much, it’s very different to starting off young together and if you are having children.

Especially now older you really need to protect assets as you have less years to recoup. Do not marry this man under any circumstances.

If you aren't married and don't gave shared children, then you go 50/50 on all costs (with him covering the extra costs his children incur).

Indeed!

I did let my partner off his share of utilities when he was thinking about going freelance -he moved into my place so was paying 1/2 the bills but really they didn't go up beyond the council tax. Still paid for food obviously.

Now we are both part time /earning good rates per day but I may pay more for holidays if it's something I really want to do (cruise added to a trip away) as I have much more disposable cash (as my parents are passing over cash when they can, as part of estate planning) and I am happy to share that sort of thing doing a holiday I'll love and he isn't bothered either way.

50/50 here despite a disparity in earnings - I save the extra money I have towards retiring early and have the equity in the house protected as owned property when we met. Even when husband was out of work for a while and I paid his share of everything he paid me back.

I know a lot view it as not romantic etc but I’ve always been financially independent and struggle with chronic illness to work etc so I’m not prepared to compensate someone for different life choices like working part time. We have no children so only impact on earning potential has been our own choices