To think London has become a parody of itself?

[NattyBrickMember]

Everything is overpriced, gentrification is out of control, and the chaos somehow feels unbearable and iconic at the same time. AIBU to think London has become a caricature of what it used to be - like a city pretending to be itself for tourists and TikTok?

which I class as going in to get back out...

I don't disagree, but it's not particularly onerous.

Its very easy to get around by bicycle

This argument about LTNs is endlessly rehearsed in my local area too (Zone 2) and people come up with the same old saw about how it's led to bars, restaurants, shops etc closing down. It's horseshit. Places close down if they're not good or popular and/or if they can't make their rent and bills any more (which is a genuine issue, but a separate one). It simply isn't true for the majority of potential customers that they can and do only come to places if they can drive there.

The only people who think this is horseshit are idiots who think that everyone will walk or cycle everywhere because they want them to.

It really isn't horseshit. Where I live, I could drive to a set of local shops in 5 minutes where there is parking. Same for people who live near me. Loads of people would drive to the supermarket, do a big weekly shop (which if you have a car and shopping for a family you are never going to do on a bus) and then go to the other shops there have a breakfast/brunch in the really sweet little local brasserie.

Now it takes 45 mins to get to the same place because you have to go out on to very very congested main road and sit in idling traffic. So now I tend to order big shops online and I stopped going go to the other shops or the brasserie which is very inaccessible now. Guess what happened to the brasserie - which was always very busy and a brilliant business? The owner is best placed to say what happened to their business and I can tell you it was good and popular.

Of course this would be the case because the LTNs have totally siloed off little areas that make it hard to get to. Same for other shops, on my way back home I'd often stop at a bakery and a local off licence, now I can't even get to them without a huge out of the way detour to go there and come back round for what used to be literally a drive down a long road, a single turn and a drive down another. I'm not the only one in that situation. Loads of businesses had passing traffic like that where a quick stop on the way home was a source of good trade.

The delivery vans now have to do the journey I would do and will be sitting in idling traffic for ages. It's all a policy dreamt up by obsessive greens to no end (the time for cars on the road has increased because of congestion all on artery routes) and has really mangled the whole convenience of living in a big city.

Daily occurrence, can't move for feral kids jumping on police cars

Apart from mobility issues, aren't those little businesses accessible by foot or bike?

If there were fewer private cars then the delivery vans wouldn't have so much traffic to have to idle in.
And I didn't say 'everyone' should walk or cycle. I said the majority can and/or do. And I was also talking about people using public transport, not just walking and cycling.
My high street is in an LTN and most days there is very healthy movement of people going in and out of shops, cafes etc.
I shop online too for heavy/bulky things. I still go out to cafes etc, and local shops for things I'd rather buy in person/fresh/in small quantities, but separately, on foot or by bus. You don't have to do your weekly shop and a trip out for lunch all in one go or not at all.

Apart from mobility issues, aren't those little businesses accessible by foot or bike?

Only for people who can be bothered and most people want convenience and an easy life. It's easy on a rainy day to just nip in for a leisurely brunch after a shop because you are there and its easy. A 5 min drive is a 15 - 25 min walk one way depending on your pace. No one is going to do that when they just want a quick stop. even less so if it is raining. Something that you could do in under an hour then becomes something taking an hour and a half apart from all the other inconvenience aspects.

A place that is easy to drive to increases its business pool exponentially. A place restricted to those who are travelling by foot or bike is really restricted to those very close by or those highly motivate - a very limited business pool.

Mobility issues can affect anyone of any age no matter how healthy. Young people tear ligaments, break bones. This idea that everyone should be walking everywhere and cycling is just unreal. People who want to drive because they want that convenience will either keep driving or just take their business elsewhere.

It's easier to stop on a bicycle than a car, no parking issues, v quick too

People who want to drive who don't need to, are doing it at the expense of others

I don’t know if you know this, but very few Londoners are based in Westminster, housing isn’t very affordable round that way. When you see rows of tents, you aren’t looking at local residents who’ve been turfed out of their penthouses and mansion flats. They are often people from all over the UK, who travel here to beg professionally - the tourist market is a lucrative one. So the thousands of people sleeping rough in the city are mainly from elsewhere in the UK, but they are based here so are seen as London issue, rather than one owned by society.

Hate to break to to you @Goldenbear but there is now a Gail's in Brentford.

It's in the big new riverside development

Yes, obviously I know they aren't previous Westminster residents! Good grief.

But they are a big London problem, a big city and small town problem, an entire UK problem. Discussion of how lovely London is, while ignoriing homeless people, is naive. Or heartless.

To facilitate people driving five mins for their "convenience" we have to give up valuable space for roads and parking to accommodate them. They need a parking space by their house and enough empty spaces available by the shops to accommodate them whenever they want.

One person's convenience (aka a car) levies a significant cost on everyone. Why should we facilitate that when the same space could be used to accommodate a dozen bikes or pedestrians at a time? Or add more street trees by requiring less parking and improve the air quality. Or sustainable urban drainage scenes to reduce the pressure on the sewage system. Or seating and parklets. Or communal recycling bins.

Yes, a small number of people cannot walk or cycle the five minutes distance. But if everyone who can walk did, then the disabled would be better off as there would be sufficient space for them to have disabled parking and less traffic on the road to slow them down.

I read recently (can't remember where) that the demographic of the homeless in London has changed and is mostly RomanIan or Albanian males, not British

Genius :-))

Pretending most of the homeless people here aren’t from disenfranchised parts of the UK or other places entirely (as opposed to London natives) would be beyond naive. Some would say stupid. Big cities have big problems, that’s the nature of such places.

It’s a miracle we made it 11 pages before the anti LTN, not letting me drive everywhere is what’s ruining London posters turned up AND trying to use the argument of mobility & accessibility to argue for car use when they’ve admitted convenience is their main agenda.

The streets are clogged and polluted by people wanting to drive tanks down narrow 2 ways streets, not by public transport, because their convenience should trump everyone else’s.

In all of the close calls I’ve had on the streets of London none have been at the hands of the feral youth, maurading forrins or mad terrorists. ALL have been at the hands of entitled car drivers who would happily see every pavement and green space turned into a road for them to drive or park on.

The ‘I have a car so I should have more rights’ lot are teeeeedious.

@DonutCroissant and your post is a clear demonstration why generally most of the problems motorists complain about are caused by motorists. Can you not see it is unsustainable for everyone to drive 5 mins to the shops in a big city just because they want to? As the saying goes "you are not stuck in traffic, you are traffic".

Aaaand this is what’s wrong. Not just with London, but cities in general.

I too agree that overly entitled people wanting to drive cars around unrestricted in the mostly densely built part of the country regardless of the harm caused are what's wrong.

Londoner born and bred here. Can't see what it is you're talking about TBH.

New buildings and the place has smartened itself up a bit (tho's I still miss the old Borough Market when it WAS a market) and public transport's improved by leaps and bounds from the 70s.

YABU.

Yep. Me too. No tik tok. Just really friendly neighbours, good shops and transport links and green spaces Just very expensive.

London is a great city for tourists if overpriced. However I’d hate to live there unless I was absolutely loaded. There are a lot of areas I’d be really unhappy living in.

It isn't. It's quite ugly (not saying that's a bad thing).